diabetes and bushcraft/survival , any advice?

[rik_uk3]

Ya don't know bars..............they have a better sense of smell than dogs & mutts are capable of detecting drugs in vacuum sealed plastic or metal containers mixed with other strong smelling substances.

If a bear can smell a plastic tube sealed in a clinically clean area then your stuffed if you even have an peanut in your pocket, or spilt a little hot chocolate on your jacket

Summery :

If diabetic, carry no food or keep out of bear country the choice is yours

 

[fishfish]

i dont think i will have to worry about bears here in rural wiltshire! lol

 

[santaman2000]

Ya don't know bars..............they have a better sense of smell than dogs & mutts are capable of detecting drugs in vacuum sealed plastic or metal containers mixed with other strong smelling substances.

You beat me to it.

 

[santaman2000]

If a bear can smell a plastic tube sealed in a clinically clean area then your stuffed if you even have an peanut in your pocket, or spilt a little hot chocolate on your jacket...

Yep. They sure can. That's why you pack those things in with a gun in your hand and then store them 100 yards away from your camp, suspended high above the ground BETWEEN 2 trees. You preferably also eat well away from your camp.

 

[santaman2000]

...Your GP will certainly help but do remember that he/she will be giving you advice without any experience of living with the condition, unless he/she suffers similarly. If I can be of any further help, please do email or p.m. me.

Actually over here it's rarely a GP that treats diabetes. The normal is for a diabetic's primary care doctor to be an Internal Medicine specialist. Said Dr, will normally see the patient either yearly or every six months with a Diabetic Education Nurse seeing the patient at 3 month intervals in between the Dr's exams. Said Diabetic Education Nurse IS usually also diabetic; that's usually one of their motivations for taking that specialization.

 

[rik_uk3]

Yep. They sure can. That's why you pack those things in with a gun in your hand and then store them 100 yards away from your camp, suspended high above the ground BETWEEN 2 trees. You preferably also eat well away from your camp.

So you can't carry anything edible on you? After you eat do you change into odour free sterile clothing, medical scrubs sort of thing then have a shower perhaps before returning to camp?

 

[santaman2000]

So you can't carry anything edible on you? After you eat do you change into odour free sterile clothing, medical scrubs sort of thing then have a shower perhaps before returning to camp?

Not that drastic. But there shouldn't be any food odors on you or your clothing anyway (apart from BEING food yourself) No there shouldn't be any food in the camp proper. It's not all that big of a deal here in Florida with only the occassional black bear which is generally on the timid side; BUT!! Never take them for granted. And sweets in particular will draw them. I alaska, many guides forbid the use of insect repellant (which is sorely needed) because it's sweet odor attracts grizzlies.

Generally I go armed.

 

[rik_uk3]

A fella I talk to (was in Inuvik, moved to Yellowknife now) camps in 'Bear country' every year and often more than once, takes his family him and he's told me about the care needed with food. I still doubt a sealed plastic tube in your FAK would be something to loose sleep over though.

 

[Golb]

Having diabetes myself, my biggest concern while hiking is having a hypo. When you exercise you need a lot more carbohydrates and a lot less insulin. If you would hike for 10 days, you'll probably know your balance after the second day. But doing a job in the office for the entire week and then going for a 20km hike demands some extra attentiveness. Just think about your trip before having your last meal (use less insulin) and bring enough sugar (dextro energy for example) just in case you need it.

In a real survival situation, you just stop taking your medicines. You will not die in a few days. It might take several weeks, months or max 2 years before you die because of the diabetes.

I have sugar stashed in my pocket, in all my jackets, my backpacks and my car. I leave my home without insulin, but never without sugar.

 

[santaman2000]

Here's a question for hose of you who stay out for longer than a weekend; how do you keep your injectable meds cold? (insulin, Byetta, or Victoza?) I'm still looking for a way to walk, canoe orhorse pack in without needing to resupply ice every few days.

 

[Silverclaws]

Diabetes presents a whole new ball game, if anyone has tried to survive on what grows and what can be hunted, they know they cannot live the way they were living with the supermarket and inevitable weight loss is common. These things in the past would have killed and enfeebled people, but now we know about them and what must be done to prevent problems we cannot deal with or find difficulty dealing with.

This is where I think the onus is on the effected, they forage to ensure their mind is in the right place, what they forage is down completely to what can be found which if anyone has tried, is not fab compared to modern day living, no refined sugars or micromanaged food stuffs. It is a particular problem if your best mind is diabetic.

But diabetes like anything diagnosed can be abused, the key is other knowledgable persons that know better, as an aspie myself there are those clued that can put me right, there is no escape, what I can't compute, others put me right, but if allowed, I loose them in directions they cannot comprehend, which serves little purpose when the over riding desire is survival of all, because all is the beginnings of a community.

I am sorry if viewers see my method as survivalist, I am that way as aside from roughing it, camping and foraging, what else is there. when we at home have a supermarket within stone's throw for most.

But as to those that shadow a larger girth than they should, do yourself a favour and bushcraft for a few weeks, if you arrive at an ideal nutrition, you will lose weight, anything less, you will lose weight and more besides !

 

[Tiley]

In the U.K. it is different then: the surgery that I attend offers a 'diabetic clinic' which is run by a knowledgeable but definitely not diabetic doctor. She is good at what she does but - and this is very much to her credit - is the first person to admit that I know more about living with the condition, having done so for 37 years, than she ever will. She can advise me about different ways of monitoring and balancing things and that she does. The only time I see the nurse - also not diabetic - in the surgery is to be leeched for my Hba1c blood test - something that happens every four months or so.

It makes sense for the dedicated health worker to be diabetic but that in itself can present problems because a good number of them would not, I imagine, have experience of trying to balance the strains of outdoor living with the maintenance of a 'healthy' blood glucose level.

 

[Tiley]

Having diabetes myself, my biggest concern while hiking is having a hypo. When you exercise you need a lot more carbohydrates and a lot less insulin. If you would hike for 10 days, you'll probably know your balance after the second day. But doing a job in the office for the entire week and then going for a 20km hike demands some extra attentiveness. Just think about your trip before having your last meal (use less insulin) and bring enough sugar (dextro energy for example) just in case you need it.

In a real survival situation, you just stop taking your medicines. You will not die in a few days. It might take several weeks, months or max 2 years before you die because of the diabetes.

I have sugar stashed in my pocket, in all my jackets, my backpacks and my car. I leave my home without insulin, but never without sugar.

You are absolutely right. However, there is also danger in swinging the other way and going hyperglycaemic. I was climbing Brenva Spur on Mont Blanc a number of years ago now and purposefully kept the blood sugar running high. At that stage, there were no portable blood sugar monitors available. As we headed down to the valley after a successful ascent, I grabbed a mouthful of water from a stream. The results were painful and explosive! I didn't feel like eating at all but drank some sweet fizzy drinks. Because I wasn't eating, I didn't think I needed to inject my insulin.

Later that night, my climbing partner thought I was having a hypo and so got ready to pour honey down my throat. Fortunately, in the hostel where we were staying, there was a newly qualified dental nurse who looked at me, sniffed my breath and then gave me a hefty dose of insulin. As a result, I came round and felt fine; more sugar would have plunged me deeper in the mire, even into coma.

At the extreme level, hypo- and hyperglycaemia can present in very similar ways; the difference is that when you are hyper, your breath smells of pear drops on account of the ketones; when you're hypo, it doesn't. This is irrelevant now that we all have quick, neat and accurate blood sugar monitors with us but, while it is eminently sensible to carry sugar with you at all times when active and outdoors, it is also worth keeping your monitor with you too, just to check which side of that 5 mmol per litre line you're heading.

 

[santaman2000]

You are absolutely right. However, there is also danger in swinging the other way and going hyperglycaemic. I was climbing Brenva Spur on Mont Blanc a number of years ago now and purposefully kept the blood sugar running high. At that stage, there were no portable blood sugar monitors available. As we headed down to the valley after a successful ascent, I grabbed a mouthful of water from a stream. The results were painful and explosive! I didn't feel like eating at all but drank some sweet fizzy drinks. Because I wasn't eating, I didn't think I needed to inject my insulin....

Hyper is definitely a possibility. But what I (and I believe Golb) was referring to when I reccomended to simplt stop taking meds in a "true survival" situation, was a situation where (for whatever reason) food simply isn't available or is only available on a near starvation level. In such a situation, going hypo is highly unlikely.

 

[santaman2000]

...At the extreme level, hypo- and hyperglycaemia can present in very similar ways; the difference is that when you are hyper, your breath smells of pear drops on account of the ketones; when you're hypo, it doesn't....

....This is irrelevant now that we all have quick, neat and accurate blood sugar monitors with us but, while it is eminently sensible to carry sugar with you at all times when active and outdoors, it is also worth keeping your monitor with you too, just to check which side of that 5 mmol per litre line you're heading.

On your first point: Thjis is exactly opposite of what we're taught. Either as a diabetic or as a first aider. Hypoglcemic is what gives the breath a fruity smell according to our protocols.

On your second point: Yes I carry a portable glucometer but it's accuracy is extremely suspect when ambient temps are over 85f. Summer nights here are hotter than that and daytime temps are often over 100f. This makes the meter readings questionable in the outdoors at best and disaterous at worst. Still worse if the glucometer is left in the car while you take a half day hike (temps in the car can top 140f when parked)

 

[rik_uk3]

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/high_blood_sugar_hyperglycemia/page3_em.htm

 

[santaman2000]

That's an e site Rik. The fruity breath is totally at odds with all approved classes or training I've ever taken.

 

[rik_uk3]

That's an e site Rik. The fruity breath is totally at odds with all approved classes or training I've ever taken.

http://www.visionaware.org/section.aspx?FolderID=6&SectionID=111&DocumentID=5707

http://www.uihealthcare.com/topics/diabetes/diab4395.html

http://www.merckmanuals.com/profess...ate_metabolism/diabetic_ketoacidosis_dka.html

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hyperglycemia/DS01168/DSECTION=symptoms

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5792243_can-high-blood-sugar-lethargy_.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperglycemia

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_hyperglycemia_patients_have_fruity_breath

 

[santaman2000]

Again out of those seven, there's only one that's a recognized source (Mayo Clinic) But even so, they're still articles, Not approved courses. I'm not saying that you're not right. But that it's at odds with what's taught. What's taught is that when you smell fruity breath, treat with a high sugar food.

 

[rik_uk3]

I'd check that santaman if I were you, perhaps training has changed since you last did a course.