Countryside 999, knives again

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boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Just seen a bit of a BBC programme Countryside 999 with yet another piece of misinformation by a policeman. He was filmed interrogating some people camping. After asking if they had some drugs on them he asked about "weapons" and they produced a legal folding knife at which he lectured them that if it locked it would be illegal. They were advised to keep it it a bag.

At least two points wrong that passed without challenge or exposition by the programme. A larger knife, a fixed blade or a locking one would probably have all been legal in the context of their camping.

The folding knife could be carried in the pocket perfectly legally as is stated specifically in the legislation.

Are the police ignorant or trying to extend their powers by public ignorance and fear?
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
It's unfortunate that the media feel the need to demonise folk. I'm not a tree loving liberal and some folk do need to be controlled in society. And finding and excuse to remove certain individuals by other means seems to be a good way to come at things. (Think Al Capone and tax evasion).
But there are positive stories out there like that chap who had a wee bit of fame with his spoon carving shop.
Some of us are our own worst enemies though, with overly overt and aggressive looking blades and gear. Back in the 80's when what we did was termed "survivalism" it had a terrible public image with cammo gear and large Rambo knives. This was coupled to the American image of paranoid survivalists on the fringes of society fighting against Federal Law.
It took folk like Mr Mears, Les Hiddens Mr Kochanski to coin a more friendly term like bushcraft to make it more palatable to the general public. I was brought up around knives and guns being a country lad and was taught to treat them with respect. They are a tool after all, but one that can do damage both physical and in the minds of others. So I always tried to be a bit of an ambassador with things like that. You can see attitudes differ as you travel 'round the globe. Having shot with folk from many countries when it comes to national stereotypes I'm happiest with the UK, Nordic and German folks. Good safe and respectful folk in general. Where there are other nations where I've regularly had to ban them from coming back.

So yes I think that some coppers do abuse their position either through ignorance, bloody-mindedness or trying to find a way to deal with undesirables - but it's usually on the back of public opinion. Our local cops here are great about my hobby and know I usually have a knife with me in the woods. They know I'm a sensible chap who'd never think of brandishing it around (it's usually hidden unless I'm actually using it in camp). But I think good education to the public from level headed users would make a world of difference.


Unfortunately there are bad and misinformed types in all strata of society, there always were and always will be. They just have to be educated and kept in check by the others.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Have you raised this with the bbc?
Tired of raising matters with the BBC, bland replies is all you get with sometimes the information that they research their programmes. Really they do as evidenced by such farragos as Bonekickers, Ripper Street and "history" according to Dan Snow..
 

Oakleaf

Full Member
Jun 6, 2004
331
1
Moray
It is demoralising - but incredibly important to keep on taking up such matters. Those with alternate issues - often at complete odds with a legitimate and responsible way of life that I suspect many members here would follow - have waged a relentless campaign for decades now. Their constant drip of censure has worked wonders ( for them ) and the constraints now in place - legally and socially would beggar belief if predicted three decades back.

Quoting Pratchet from 'Interesting Times' '...they got worse than whips here... you'll see...' basically referred to the fictional populace having evolved a mindset of subservience - to the point where no external input required. I am not suggesting subservience in the context here - but the alteration of public perception is every bit as a damaging and insidious.

But those tactics have been shown to be incredibly effective in the long term - the good news is that no patent exists; there is nothing at all to stop 'us' successfully countering such issues.
 

789987

Settler
Aug 8, 2010
554
0
here
whatever you can justify - and if you have all the camping type stuff what police man is gonna charge you?

ive taken hatchets, fixed blades, locking blades, edc legal blades, air guns. pre compressesed guns. bb guns, catapults... whatever ive fancied taking.

bottom line - im not a criminal. why should i concern myself with what some halfwit may think?
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
y Not having a goggle box is countryside 999 a realistic fly on the wall documentry on rural policeing where they spend large amounts of doing not much until something happens and they have to travel for an hour to look for metal thieves.
It probably is one of those where the poor coppers have to harrass some campers to look like they are busy for the cameras. I am not critasising rural police, but I don't think a tv program could really cover them fairly.
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,249
449
none
The laws not that simple I'm afraid - you would need to provide 'good reason' to have anything on you except a 3" bladed readily fold-able pocket knife

It would be up to you to prove that good reason, whether that was to the police officer, desk sergeant, CPS, magistrates or a court of 12 of your peers would depend on the circumstances and how far up the chain things went...

this is a useful thread from Britishblades

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?8336-The-Law-FAQ
 

789987

Settler
Aug 8, 2010
554
0
here
no. ignore the hype. when was the last time you were stopped by the police?

when was the last time you and your bag full of camping stuff was taken in front of a court.?

youre giving your mind a treat that you look even remotely dangerous. the fact you doubt your rights means this nonsense carries on.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
He also pulled over a van driver who appeared to have no insurance. At the end of the programme it was said that the driver got off because it appears he was insured after all, didn't say who paid for the van recovery though as it was seized. And, a motorist was searched because he appeared diffident when asked if he had got anything he shouldn't, nothing found of course. With this sort of law enforcement I think I would worry if I had a loaded cucumber in the car.
 

Orchard

Forager
Dec 17, 2013
185
0
Abergavenny
He also pulled over a van driver who appeared to have no insurance. At the end of the programme it was said that the driver got off because it appears he was insured after all, didn't say who paid for the van recovery though as it was seized. And, a motorist was searched because he appeared diffident when asked if he had got anything he shouldn't, nothing found of course. With this sort of law enforcement I think I would worry if I had a loaded cucumber in the car.

Hahaha, sounds like he'd be willing to plant said cucumber to fulfil his KPI's ;)

Thanks for your help lads, i'll check out the Blades link.
 

Oakleaf

Full Member
Jun 6, 2004
331
1
Moray
This topic has become a little heated and political previously; and I fully appreciate the Mods stance and policy on that. Given some of the posts to this thread with specific questions - I believe that alone shows the worth of such threads and how important an issue it is.

The law is the law - and also how the person on the spot and society / the judicial system etc etc choose to apply it. My proposal is that the ongoing trend is the demonisation of blades and that will colour how things are enforced.

There are parallels with the shooting community here - not least the general response that only those doing 'something wrong' have anything to worry about. And an innocent , respectable citizen is unlikely to ever have any negative interaction with law enforcement. I can fully understand that point of view, but respectfully contend that there is an element of playing a string instrument whilst there's a pervading smell of smoke over an Italian city ;) These thing affect individuals and through that route collectively us all. One by one, some of them entirely Just, some questionable, some wrong and each one a tiny thing of little seeming 'consequence'. But years down the line, attitudes have changed, the law makers perceive ever new 'threats' and often 'necessity' demands action - please Google for William Pitt's comments on the role of necessity in government

Other minorities ( and be clear it's what 'we' are these days ) have implemented hugely successful perception campaigns to alter, at a fundamental level, the way they are perceived and ultimately treated by the law and society. That cohesion simply doesn't exist in many of the outdoor pursuits collectives and it is costing and is going to cost us all dearly.

In this week's local paper ( and I accept papers do not accurately cover stories, more to it than meets the eye etc etc - but I am taking the quotes as accurate and it is they that underline my point )-

1. An English tourist was found in possession of a holdall with an 'incredible' collection of 21 blades in it. The court fully accepted he was a collector, quote ' in the same way someone collects stamps'. He had zero criminal record, a steady and responsible job and witnesses all around affirmed he was behaving responsibly and in no way threatening anyone. The police and court accepted he represented absolutely zero risk to the public. Having served 30 days on remand he was sentenced to 2 years prison - to send a clear message that the private ownership of blades is 'simply' unacceptable to society.

2. Two separate cases of persons found to be growing cannibis following police call out on 'disturbance' issues. Both cases had previous convictions both drug and violence related. The towns concerned had experienced a spate of criminal activity relating to drug use. In one case three plants were found, of which only one met the criteria as prohibited. In the other a greenhouse full was discovered with an estimated street value of £12,000. In the first case a community service order of 65 hours was issued along with £75 fine and £50 costs. In the second, the court accepted the £12k of cannibis was only for personal use as the defendant was a heavy smoker - 20 hours community service and £50 costs. One defendant was arrested at court pursuant to an investigation of an assault charge that had occurred since his arrest on the drug charge.

3. A man accused of slashing a woman with a stanley knife had his case dropped as the woman he had attacked was believed to have moved from the area and could not be contacted. No charges of an offensive weapon nature were to be brought as this wasn't felt to be in the public interest.

The case details do not really matter - its the mindset and perception that they illustrate that causes me concern.

No lecture, not rabble rousing etc just airing an opinion.
 

Essexman

Forager
Jul 26, 2010
213
23
Essex
Does your local paper have an online version? If so I would really like to read more about example No 1 if you have a link please.
 

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