You're talking about the preconception of something being basic or uncomfortable, not the experience of it actually being uncomfortable though.
Comfortable camping... Is this true?!
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Not sure why the difference matters......but this was after two nights in the lavvo and being in the hammock and complaining that he could feel the wind on his face
But by who's standards are we to judge 'decent' i thought the £1000+ worth of equipment i let him use was a treat....he'd have prefered his car camping stuff from yeomans/millets and an electric hook up for the fan heater
As i say......very relative, and subjective
I spoke about comfortable winter camping.......his response? "Impossible.....its winter!"
I seem to remember the moot being good weather, camping as you know is worst in the wet, how do you think you would cope with a week of rain damp wind and mud? Could you have done with a horse with a nice tent and perhaps a woodburner just in case?
No biggie. 50' rope over the site, 20' x 40' cheap tarp over the rope. Once that's played out, home and dry.
What's to eat????
What's to eat????
Too right!
I can be comfortable camping with just the kit I can fit in a pocket - but it takes more work and time than if I take a whole load of kit up with me...
I have had worse nights sleeping in a house than I have had under a tarp!
This is comfortable.
So is this.
And this.
Comfort is more about attitude than equipment or situation and I think "Bushcraft" is more about attitude than anything else.
You mean you don't have porters Cousin Petro? Oh bad show, I'd have a word with my man if he hadn't arranged the help.
Like others have said with a bit of knowledge you can make most trips comfortable. I've headed off in my youth to try living off the land for a week with pretty much just a knife. It's blinking hard and though hungry I could make a comfortable camp each night.
I still have my hardcore Hilleberg Tara for mountain trips should I ever feel up to it again but there days the Tipi gets the most use. Can have it up and the stove lit in about 20 minutes so doesnt take that long. Loads of space to live in and in foul weather its high enough for my mate and I to stand or sit in. His bell tent is a little low. I tend not to use the floor as it feels more comfortable without it attatched.
Glamping is just another media friendly label for folks to hang on it. Do we think that our mobile ancestors didn't have comfort too. Look at the nomads who still exist, some pretty tricked out camps there.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
It really depends on the trip. I've spent a lot of time in miserable conditions just so that I have a shot at a turkey at sunrise. I've struggled to keep away frostbite while trying to summit a mountain. I've fought dehydration while trying to navigate through a forest. If I measured my trips in terms of comfort, I would just hang a hammock in my back yard. In doing so I would have missed out on a lot.
I'm not sure whether I should be insulted or saddened by your statement.
It is shocking to me that in this day and age, someone would insist on such a close minded and ignorant point of view. I'll leave aside your numbingly simplistic evaluation of what is required for comfort, but you should know that there are vast numbers of us who go into the outdoors to push ourselves and our gear beyond comfort and beyond our limitations. By doing so many of us experience things that are clearly beyong your comprehension.
If you have a certain way of doing things that makes you happy, that's fine. But don't tell the rest of us we are doing it wrong especially when your understanding of the wilderness, as encompassed by your post, is so limited.
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Yup you just need to look at old campaign or safari furniture to see just what folk used to take.
I used to do both ends of the spectrum, uber minimal and going comfy. These days after having a few bits of me replaced I do like my big Tipi and woodburner stove.
I may have found the plans, well for the wooden bits at least ~ it certainly uses the same pic
https://third34xmf.wordpress.com/20...iture-designs-diy-woodworking-plans-dressers/ (Not a free download, no stated guarantee that the items in the pic are actually in the plans, and I have no connection to the designer or the sales/site)
If I had a car, and a few more quid, I would take twice as much as I do. So I have to vote that all that stuff is a good idea. That being said a "good" idea is not the only idea or option. Younger folk than me may wish to have the very bare minimum, less comfort but more contentment. I say younger because as I have got older, while I may wish to be as some of those photo's show, I know I would wake up at 3 in the morning sore as anything and truly wish I was home in bed. That's not something I want. The photo of a bed made from saplings actually looks very comfortable but as I don't have my own woodland to try a stunt like that I will stick to my very comfy hammock with a tarp that has not let me down. I don't want to survive a weekend camp, I want a weekend camp! ( oh and it needs to be near a bus stop!).
If you can afford stuff like that, and you have a means to get it to site, fine. If going minimal adds to the pleasure, fine. "I had a really $%&"* weekend, when can we go again" is not for me.
The good thing about this forum is the different ways we all enjoy the outdoors, some barely step away from their cars, others prefer to go varying distances on foot.
So comfort needs to be taken in the context of what we are doing,
As an example, a folding chair makes a massive difference to the comfort around camp.
The suffering of carrying one on my back for 5 days would cancel out any comfort gained at camp though.
So a rock, dry patch of ground, tree trunk/stump makes do, not as comfortable as a folding chair, but i don't have to carry it either.
So comfort is relative to the activates that we are participating it and even the areas we are doing these activities in.
So comfort needs to be taken in the context of what we are doing,
As an example, a folding chair makes a massive difference to the comfort around camp.
The suffering of carrying one on my back for 5 days would cancel out any comfort gained at camp though.
So a rock, dry patch of ground, tree trunk/stump makes do, not as comfortable as a folding chair, but i don't have to carry it either.
So comfort is relative to the activates that we are participating it and even the areas we are doing these activities in.
While statements like "any fool can be uncomfortable" and "if you are uncomfortable you are doing it wrong" have been around for a while, I think they are really being used out of context here to imply or outright state that comfort is the result of wisdom and that discomfort is the product of foolishness inexperience or mental defect.
The reality is that these statements were originally intended to be applicable only when all other things are equal.
So, if two people are climbing a mountain under the exact same conditions, and manage to achieve the same goal, but one of them is comfortable while the other is not, then the above statements may apply.
However, if one person is climbing a mountain and is uncomfortable, while the other is hanging out next to the car in comfort, it is absurd to call one person wise and the other foolish.
Just like any fool can be uncomfortable by being foolhardy, any fool can be comfortable by limiting the scope and ambitiousness of their trip.
Btw, typing on phone. Sorry for any errors.
The reality is that these statements were originally intended to be applicable only when all other things are equal.
So, if two people are climbing a mountain under the exact same conditions, and manage to achieve the same goal, but one of them is comfortable while the other is not, then the above statements may apply.
However, if one person is climbing a mountain and is uncomfortable, while the other is hanging out next to the car in comfort, it is absurd to call one person wise and the other foolish.
Just like any fool can be uncomfortable by being foolhardy, any fool can be comfortable by limiting the scope and ambitiousness of their trip.
Btw, typing on phone. Sorry for any errors.
I don't normally chime in on threads like this but this post and your one below just sort of brought the point home for me.
I think part of the difference between yours and Squidders opinion may be the same issue as when people try to define bushcraft.
It depends on what you view to be camping.
I strongly agree with Squidders that if you should not be uncomfortable camping.
That being said, In my opinion, being out and uncomfortable for a shoot or trying to summit a mountain are not camping. They are activities that go beyond making a camp and living in it. the camp itself simply serves a purpose as part of a greater experiance or challenge rather than BEING the purpose in the first place.
So yes, in those situations I can see that a peson may need to be uncomfortable to acheive their chosen goal, but for some one setting up a camp for the evening/night/morning, with the intetion of camping (i.e. making a camp and living in it,not hiking, shooting, fishing, etc) I can't see why they cannot take the time to make their campsite comfortable.
As for being dehydrated in a forest, I really don't think there is ever a justifiable reason to let oneself get to this condition, short of emergency sitiuations where it is out of your control(or in some challenges against a clock). It's just unsafe, and with a little preperation and forethought can be avoided most of the time.
I hope you understand I'm not having a dig at you, I'm a regular browser of your blog (thanks btw!), but these are my veiws on it .
All the best,
Stephen
As i say though it 100% depends on the context of "camping".
If your camping on a warm dry bank holiday weekend, next to your fully loaded up car then sure why not throw everything in including the kitchen sink.
If on the other hand you are camping half way up a mountain after having hiked 15km with 1500m of elevation gain your definition of comfort will be different.
Likewise very very few people will find anything comfortable about spending a week camping/hammocking in a tropical rain forest.
So i can understand and agree with rg's concerns.
Anyone that's not had a uncomfortable night camping hasn't really camped enough times or hasn't ventured far enough from he car.
Be that gale force winds, driving rain, snow, kit failure, mistakes made or just downright unlucky, i've had many a uncomfortable nights as a result of all, i don't see how that makes me more of a fool than say someone that camps out only in good weather and never strays far from the car.
I also don't see how anyone can judge car campers as fools either, each to their own.
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