Climate Change & Survival.

ManFriday4

Nomad
Nov 13, 2021
255
81
Oxfordshire
Sigh ... just look at the amount of coal Chine burns. Almost nothing we do has any effect in comparison to that.
Looking at China isn't the point. We actually can't stop climate change, and whether we can survive it is questionable.

The latest paper on climate looks at the existing data, the existing emissions already in the atmosphere. These are gigatones of CO2 which humans have put there. @Woody girl made it clear that none of the measures we are doing like ULEZ etc have any impact.

Pointing at China is a distraction. From actually doing something.

I'm a confessed Doomer, there are lots of us and one onmf the things doomers do is look at the long and short term impacts of climate change and work out how we can adapt. I hear people saying humans/ we can adapt but no one has actually told me how they are actually adapting apart from self management during the heatwave.

Just remember that while you are looking at China, Australia just approved a coal mine, the UK has just issued drilling licences to the North Sea & Biden is auctioning the Carribbean sea bed for oil prospecting.

"We" are as bad as them. But we aren't about that.

Each year you can look back at these posts and remember that this year will be cooler than in 2 years.

Consider the impact that abnormal warming has on agriculture, everywhere. Now explain, now that you know how you will tell your grand kids that someone warned you about runaway climate change and our need to adapt instead of looking China but you just said look at China & sighed.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,810
S. Lanarkshire
In two years time I think you might be surprised :)

But then, I am an optimist not a doomer.
I don't believe in dooming us, I'm not interested in stewing problems, I am interested in practical workable solutions.
Living under a dark cloud believing things are only going to get worse does no one any favours and certainly doesn't encourage other folks to adjust their way of life.

Little by little, positive changes and efforts can move mountains, increase biodiversity, save the planet :)
 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
3,257
1,723
Vantaa, Finland
Pointing at China is a distraction. From actually doing something.
Hmmm ... no I have about halved my fuel consumption on road by using a hybrid (non plugin). My summer cottage uses a wood stove for cooking and wood for heating.

Also I am a retired pragmatic engineer meaning: "YOU SHOULD START FROM THE LARGEST SOURCE" almost all else is just white washing. Or climate cult.
 

ManFriday4

Nomad
Nov 13, 2021
255
81
Oxfordshire
That's all very true, but instead of just saying there is nothing I as one person can do in the face of this looming disaster, we all need to think about our footprint and try to do our best to minimise it. At least we can say we did our best.
But what is our best?
I have a reusable cup and water bottle on me whenever I go out. If I get a takeaway cuppa, I produce my cup, and ask for it to be filled instead of a plastic coated paper cup that gets thrown away, and even if it's "recyclable" costs more recourses to do so.
I'm reducing my waste, my main bin is less than a quarter full, and hasn't been out for collection for two months. Nor has my paper and plastic bins been out for 3 weeks, still only half full, and no glass to be recycled either as I reuse most of it anyway.
I don't have TV, or computer, but plenty of books and crafts to learn and make things.
So electronic gadgets are my phone, radio, electric kettle, cooker washing machine and fridge freezer. Oh, and heat pump heating system, along with a multifuel stove for when it needs supplementation such as extreme cold, or power cuts.
I've sold my beloved motorbike.
(Yes, tears were shed) I now car share with a friend for journeys, or pay them if I realy need to go somewhere. I've spent much less than my insurance alone this year on travel.
I still have £150 of government money in my electricity account.
I have a productive veg garden that gives me hours of pleasure and connection to nature, aswell as food all summer long, and part of the winter too. Meat is consumed once a month, and is locally produced.
I haven't been to a large supermarket for nearly a year. I don't need to.
I shop for clothes and other needs in charity shops. Linnen tops, wool sweaters and blankets, that I could never afford new. Plus I'm not ordering off amazon or whatever, racking up more costs and pollution in manufacture and transport. (Yesterday, two glass clip top le parfet jars for half new cost.)
My walk into town gives me enough blackberries for tea tonight. Enough elder berries for elderberry syrup, which I make listening to the radio instead of watching TV.
I buy honey from local producers, not the cheap sugar adulterated supermarket stuff.
It costs more, but as I'm saving elsewhere, I can afford it.
Presents are charity shop bargains, preloved, or hand made. So is my furniture, (apart from my bed and mattress, bought 5 yrs ago, first new furniture in over 30 yrs)
I haven't gone backwards. I'm thriving, and loving being the sort of person who walks their talk, and is relatively self reliant in comparison to many.
It's a challenge for sure, and it's not always easy, but it realy brings home what you realy need to be comfortable. We have gotten too used to pushing a button for instant gratification or need that we no longer are aware what we are doing or even think about it.
We don't have to go back to medievil times to be comfortable and sustainable. If we all changed as much as we could, rather than making token gestures with our recycling bins and electric cars, much more could be done to live sustainable lives.
Trouble is, we are too busy making money to have these home comforts, we are either too tired and just want to slump in front of a TV or box set, or have no time to make, and do things that would have been normal, even back in the 70's, we have no time to live sustainable lives. Catch 22.
Work to live, not live to work. It can be done.
My new wool rug, is a fleece that would have been thrown away. I rescued two, and they are now soaking in a tin bath in the garden to clean them, and i shall be weaving it on a peg loom, which any half handy chap could knock up in a few hours. Saving them from landfill, and producing something worthwhile into the bargain.
I'm doing my best, and keep looking for more ways to improve. So I'm not being holier than thou, as I'm sure many are doing a lot of what I do too, at least, I'd hope so!
We are all responsible, we are all in this together, we are all hypocrites.

Thats right. But I haven't flown for 23 years, I don't have a car. We have an A++ fridge/Freezer and a washing machine- no tumble drier, no dishwasher. All the phone charging is solar. From recycled parts. I'm a proper scavenger & reuser.

I rarely buy new clothes other tha. Pants. My sleeping bag is 26 years old 4 season bag. Repeatedly repaired. My Pukko knife is 30+ years old.

I'm fixing old axes I find in boot fairs.

But essentially we can't fix the problem, but adaptation is not coming from the state. In fact they are speeding us towards civilisation collapse from heat.

And starvation.

"Higher temperatures can severely affect agricultural yields. One study estimates that each 1oC increase in global mean temperature could see reductions in global yields of wheat (6%), rice (3.2%), and maize (3.2%). Other research has shown reductions in crop growth. For example, maize crops in 2020 had on average nine days less for growth compared to the 30-year average between 1981-2010. Extreme heat events may also disrupt plant growth during key parts of a plant’s life cycle, such as during the July 2022 European heatwave when concerns were raised over the pollination of maize crops."

 

ManFriday4

Nomad
Nov 13, 2021
255
81
Oxfordshire
Hmmm ... no I have about halved my fuel consumption on road by using a hybrid (non plugin). My summer cottage uses a wood stove for cooking and wood for heating.

Also I am a retired pragmatic engineer meaning: "YOU SHOULD START FROM THE LARGEST SOURCE" almost all else is just white washing.
Climate cult?
 

Wander

Native
Jan 6, 2017
1,418
1,986
Here There & Everywhere
I'm a confessed Doomer...

Purely philosophical question this.
But if, as a self-confessed 'doomer' (what a way to describe oneself!) who believes we are 'doomed' with no hope, why do you continue raise awareness?
What difference will it make?
You outline the actions you take to save the climate, but why? As a 'doomer' (again, one who believes we are doomed) why do you not embrace entropy and absolutely indulge yourself?
Why carry on?
 

ManFriday4

Nomad
Nov 13, 2021
255
81
Oxfordshire
@Wander because its importat that we humans at least make an effort to survive, restore nature and tell the truth about the climate emergency non violently and with good humour.

Nature restoration is my great hobby. I grow a rare wetland species which I plant locally. We are more collapse aware than most. We observe the science and try to stay abreast of it. It's important people know why the world isn't going into an ice age.

A doomer is a term that was given to us by Proff Michael E Mann. He made up a mantra. Doomism = Innaction. Then refused to actually talk about how climate change is driving very high risk for wildlife and humans. He recently said he regrests being so conservative in his assessments. No one wants to be Dr Doom.

We aren't a cult.

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Lean'n'mean

Settler
Nov 18, 2020
744
464
France
Of course some people are more impacted by climate change than others & so are less optimistic. Back in the 20th century, we didn't even have these temps in july, except in the once in a decade heat wave.

Meteo-o1.png
 
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ManFriday4

Nomad
Nov 13, 2021
255
81
Oxfordshire
If one looks back, say 30 years by some people we all should be dead by now. As we are not those doomsayers clearly belong to a cult trying to scare the rest.
Why would I want to scare you?
And people who predict the future are fools unless it is science based.

Fir example we know that 420ppm CO2 I more that 3.5° Warming but we don't know how fast.

We know thawed are at 1.2° C above 1850 temperatures and we are getting a super El Nino & the Milankovich cycle takes us closer to the sun in 2024. Which COULD trigger additional heating.

We aren't sure, but it's a 90% chance.

Are you prepared to bet on a 10% chance?

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Wander

Native
Jan 6, 2017
1,418
1,986
Here There & Everywhere
Then for the sake of you own mental health, your own self-esteem, and (just as importantly) that of the people around you and who you love and care for, do not describe yourself a 'doomer' (because it seems you're not), do not allow other people to label you (who gives a damn what names Professor Mann wants to label people), do not allow yourself to be led by ideology.
It is doing you no good.
Keep up with your positive actions, your positive views, and your positive feelings. Though retain a humble humility about them.
This will do you and those around you a far greater good and you may, just may, motivate others as well to be a positive change.
The 'doomer' personality isn't working.
 

ManFriday4

Nomad
Nov 13, 2021
255
81
Oxfordshire
Then for the sake of you own mental health, your own self-esteem, and (just as importantly) that of the people around you and who you love and care for, do not describe yourself a 'doomer' (because it seems you're not), do not allow other people to label you (who gives a damn what names Professor Mann wants to label people), do not allow yourself to be led by ideology.
It is doing you no good.
Keep up with your positive actions, your positive views, and your positive feelings. Though retain a humble humility about them.
This will do you and those around you a far greater good and you may, just may, motivate others as well to be a positive change.
The 'doomer' personality isn't working.
Oh I think you misunderstand, doomer is not taken so an insult. There are 100s of us. Proff Mann I think did not realise that he had created a hashtag on twitter which brought together thousands of people, who have been through climate grief and acceptance. I can't change anything and it would be foolish to think I can.

I was interested by the original post and all the responses, rudeness & denial.

It's amazing that we now have storms delivering a years worth of rain in a 24 hour period and that's a climate cult.

You gotta have a lot of patience these days to Deal with the denial and conspiracy theory.

I certainly don't have self esteem issues.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,810
S. Lanarkshire
I mind a few years ago research that implied that cars driving on the wrong side of the road (to us) was driving the development of tornados.

I've had a google and found an article on the subject.


Aye, indeed.
I reckon there are many, many wee triggers that change our environment, and I suspect that it's going to be many, many wee changes that will fix things.....for a given value of fixed since change is normal for the Earth's climate.
 

Pattree

Full Member
Jul 19, 2023
2,167
1,162
77
UK
Whatever change is coming it is in all likelyhood very different from what we can envisage from here. My grandchildren or their descendants might understand better. They might be the ones to plan our species’ survival. All we can do is work to reduce those activities which seem to be causing the problems - and we aren’t currently very successful. I do not think that as a species we feel threatened enough yet.

If the coming change is apocalyptic I’d be very arrogant to think that I’ll be a survivor. I’m too much of a loner. The human rat packs may make it. Should it come to that I don’t think that finding materials to make a fire bow will e among our problems.

Humanity has survived near extinction. Do you feel lucky?

Many species survived both the K-T asteroid and a couple of ice ages and did so in their pre-dinosoric forms which they have kept (more or less) till today. What can they teach us?


Dinosaurs survived the K-T by evolving into birds. What might we have to evolve into?

Tardigrades might be able to survive floating free in space. What can they evolve into?
I have no idea what it’s coming.
I shall almost certainly buy a new phone before I’m out. I shall continue to put as little plastic packaging in the recycle bin as I can but I’m buying plastic. I’ve just bought a Mora knife.

At the age of about nine I was taught to sit under my desk with my head between my knees when the atomic air raid siren went. It’s a useful position to kiss your bottom good bye.

DNA shall survive.
Humanity might survive in some form - but does that matter?

Edited to add: I’m not a doomer at all but I’m not much of a doer either.
I am a Pantheist so for me, the survival of DNA is more significant than human survival but we’ve come so far, I hope it can be useful.
 
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Woody girl

Full Member
Mar 31, 2018
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Just been out blackberrying..only person in town that seems to be doing it, but that's their look out, probably slumped in front of their telly! :)
On the way back, saw a friend, and we sat down for a chat. Told her about this conversation, and I nearly fell off my seat with her reply.

There is no such thing as climate change, its the government spraying us with con..(I love that she used that word!) trails from airplanes that's causing it. All that you need to do is contact the companies and tell them to stop if you are worried.

Duh??????????:thumbsdown::banghead2:
 

nigelp

Native
Jul 4, 2006
1,417
1,028
New Forest
newforestnavigation.co.uk
Just been out blackberrying..only person in town that seems to be doing it, but that's their look out, probably slumped in front of their telly! :)
On the way back, saw a friend, and we sat down for a chat. Told her about this conversation, and I nearly fell off my seat with her reply.

There is no such thing as climate change, its the government spraying us with con..(I love that she used that word!) trails from airplanes that's causing it. All that you need to do is contact the companies and tell them to stop if you are worried.

Duh??????????:thumbsdown::banghead2:
We collected 2 litres of black berries yesterday out on the canoe. The best free food available this time of year! I’m surprised also because it seems that people will buy tasteless ones from the supermarket and not bother collecting free ones.

Sorry. Thread drift…
 

Woody girl

Full Member
Mar 31, 2018
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We collected 2 litres of black berries yesterday out on the canoe. The best free food available this time of year! I’m surprised also because it seems that people will buy tasteless ones from the supermarket and not bother collecting free ones.

Sorry. Thread drift…

Buying supermarket berries is a prime example of working to live, rather than living to work.
As a kid, mom sent us out with containers to collect blackberries, and would make a crumble or pie for tea, stewed berries were used on cereals, and some were given to a housebound lady, or to another neighbour who would pay us 6d a pound, and make wine with them.
Kept us (mainly ) out of trouble in the late summer school holidays, and benefited others aswell as ourselves.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,810
S. Lanarkshire
Neighbour and I are going tomorrow to see if ours are ready to pick. It's a little early yet for here.
I like brambles, the boys loved cranachan, still do....son2 comes home and I've roasted the oats and his face lights up at the smell :)

We used to go home with handfuls of sticky fruit and Mum made cranachan for us.
None of this posh version full of whisky and the like, just fresh fruit, toasted oats and some cream.
Lovely stuff :)
 

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