Climate Change & Survival.

[grizzlyj]

I can certainly see some truth in the fact that as population has condensed and the demand for ever more information has produced many more weather stations in such populated areas. Populated areas are warmer, so more measurements in warmer areas raises the average measured disproportionately.
I recently read that the global temerature as measured from constantly moving (rather than stationary orbit) satellites has increased over whatever period they started from by 0.1 degrees C, within the allowed accuracy for the device. No change there then.
Since that sort of report immediately undermines a lot of what is reported as fact I will tend to view much of what is reported as fact with scepticism.
Scientific report funding will skew results. For scientists with decades of experience to be sidelined as happened with the Great Barrington Declaration proves the science industry does not have the integrity is pretends to have. Peer reviewed or not. You could present a report saying that recently a higher than average number of people died compared with over the last five years. Peer reviewed, all ok, everyone agrees that is fact, so oh my goodness we must act. But if you compared the same recent deaths over the last ten years then no such above average death rate, all peer reviewed, also fact, everybody calm down nothing to see here. Which one gets presented depends on the required narrative.
Before we moved to the Isle of Lewis we also looked at a house in the Pyrenees which was cheap and gorgeous. If the big lump of ice up north melts which might redirect the North Atlantic Drift to the south then the Isle of Lewis might be under an ice sheet. If the globe does warm up then the Isle of Lewis might have the same climate the Pyrenees does now, with north Africa too hot to live in and all those people head to the EU.
We moved to the Isle of Lewis, our front door is 7m above high tide. If our house gets submerged all world ports will have done too long before that, so unless we are 100% self sufficient for a wide variety of climates we won't survive anyway.
Reducing our impact is what everybody should be doing anyway and I'm sure there won't be many who aren't in some way or other. Fuel prices today I'm sure will mean lower thermostats (and deaths because of it), less miles driven, etc even by those who aren't actively interested in minimising.
Facts can be argued, belief is a bit trickier. But having minimised to the extent you are willing to do so, why worry about what you can't affect?

 

[Deleted member 56522]

Anthropogenic global warming & climate change is accelerating & worsening.

According to the UAH global temperature, the temperature now is the same as it was at Climategate. Unless you are suggesting there is a cooling trend from the overdue start of the ice-age, you cannot justify that statement on the evidence.

 

[billycoen]

But having minimised to the extent you are willing to do so, why worry about what you can't affect?

Totally agree,we could use the Butterfly effect of the Chernobyl disaster as an example of something none of us could have altered,but it will have had a massive influence on the enviroment.

 

[Tengu]

I have no kids to worry about, so I wont worry about my grandkids.

 

[Woody girl]

The best way to reduce mans impact on the planet is to reduce the population anything else is papering over the cracks

How do you propose to do that?
Do you have children, ?
Will you welcome grandchildren when they come along, or tell your offspring that they can't have children?
I know...let's sterilise all the men!!
Another world war will help, so will starvation as crops can no longer be grown and harvested, or even afforded if they are.
What a wonderful world!
It's pointless comming up with a trite throwaway solution to the problem,if you are not willing to make the sacrifices you ask of others.
In other words walk your talk.

Personaly,to answer Le Loups question, I have,
Given up my car,
Given up my TV,
Grow a lot of my own veg,
Use as few electrical appliances as possible.
Make my own clothes using localy produced wool, or recycled or unwanted fabric.
Use charity shops as a first call for anything I might need, and am prepared to wait my purchase untill something comes in.
I forage, dehydrate, bottle, and pickle, I don't fly abroad anymore.
I don't make any unnnessasary journeys.
I don't buy from amazon or online, unless its absolutely impossible to source elsewhere, and have only made 7 online purchases in my life.
I have a small exchange system going localy for the exchange of goods that I don't produce, or jobs I cannot do, for those I can do.
I have recently knitted a recycled wool sweater for someone, in exchange for my raised bed edging being made and installed with scaffolding boards , that I got free from a company that was repairing my roof, and about to dump them.
My Carbon footprint as minimal as possible , life is good and fulfilling.
(As for children, I had one, ..sadly i don't have him anymore.)

 

[Corso]

How do you propose to do that?
Do you have children, ?
Will you welcome grandchildren when they come along, or tell your offspring that they can't have children?

Nope don't have any - for many reasons but one of them was over-population

Not realy here to talk about personal stories though, my observation was that the hysteria that drives the climate change movement is focusted on protecting the very thing thats probably the biggest contributor to it

Don't have a car either, nor do I fly, I try hard to buy local goods, have a passion for old gear and grow my own veg but these are personal choices I have no interest in virtue signaling

 

[British Red]

The best way to reduce mans impact on the planet is to reduce the population anything else is papering over the cracks

In the interest of examining the impact of population, I find it helpful to examine the data over a significant period

Let's look at the UKs changes to CO2 emissions over the years

Screenshot_20220311-141141__01 by English Countrylife, on Flickr

There are some rises and some falls but it's not a trend I find helpful. Now let's look at the UK's per capita emissions

Screenshot_20220311-141148__01 by English Countrylife, on Flickr

The UK per capita emissions have fallen and continue to fall dramatically.

Now let's look at population

Screenshot_20220311-142255__01 by English Countrylife, on Flickr


Reducing per capita emissions, whilst failing to address an ever growing population has consequences.

More houses are built using energy and materials such as concrete. These houses are built on land with the impact of less food grown therefore more food imported using fossil fuels. The expanded population have cars, central heating boilers etc.

Many serious people have acknowledged the role of population growth in not just climate change but things like the "housing crisis" ( there are more homes in the UK than at any point in history).

Whilst tackling population growth is a very emotive subject, if we aren't mature enough to discuss difficult topics and acknowledge their role, then I fear we simply do not have the tools that we need to tackle climate, housing, crime and many of the major societal pressures.

 

[Corso]

Whilst tackling population growth is a very emotive subject, if we aren't mature enough to discuss difficult topics and acknowledge their role, then I fear we simply do not have the tools that we need to tackle climate, housing, crime and many of the major societal pressures.

Indeed and thats just the UK - far more global issues to worry about

 

[Woody girl]

Nope don't have any - for many reasons but one of them was over-population

Not realy here to talk about personal stories though, my observation was that the hysteria that drives the climate change movement is focusted on protecting the very thing thats probably the biggest contributor to it

Don't have a car either, nor do I fly, I try hard to buy local goods, have a passion for old gear and grow my own veg but these are personal choices I have no interest in virtue signaling

But you just have!
I'm confused ,you say you don't believe in all the hysteria(to use your words) about climate change, you put up some pretty dismissive responses that quite honestly make you look like a climate change denyer, then tell us what you do to mitigate climate change, and say you don't virtue signal.
The whole point of Le Loups thread, was asking what people do to mitigate climate change. It's not about is it happening.
It's great to point to various studies and charts that can quite honestly show whatever the person doing it wants to show. Pro or anti. P8ck and choose arguments that suit us. So then we all argue the why and wherefore, and ignore what's realy happening because it gets too much, and we give up in frustration.
Then it's too late to do anything anyway.
Remember when twin towers happened and everything stopped flying for a few days, how clear the skies were? It was remarked about constantly, how lovely it was not to have the skies covered in com trails.
When we all entered lockdown, suddenly we could all hear the birds singing, noise pollution was gone, vehicle pollution dropped dramatically, but as soon as we were let out, it all went backwards again.
I'm not saying ( before anyone else does) that we should stay shut up in our houses, but it did show us how things could be better for ourselves and our health if these polluting elements were removed.
As for housing, BR has a good point, and many rural communities are fighting houses being built on green field sites and destroying their communities. I don't know the answer, as refugees will keep coming and coming adding to the problem. I do think that richer people buying up second homes, or air b and b have a great deal to answer for in the cause of housing shortages. Sort that out, and you solve a lot of housing problems straight away. There are thousands of empty properties all over the UK that could be used before building more. To say nothing of the second homes that are empty most of the year,

 

[Corso]

But you just have!
I'm confused ,you say you don't believe in all the hysteria(to use your words) about climate change, you put up some pretty dismissive responses that quite honestly make you look like a climate change denyer, then tell us what you do to mitigate climate change, and say you don't virtue signal.
The whole point of Le Loups thread, was asking what people do to mitigate climate change. It's not about is it happening.
It's great to point to various studies and charts that can quite honestly show whatever the person doing it wants to show. Pro or anti. P8ck and choose arguments that suit us. So then we all argue the why and wherefore, and ignore what's realy happening because it gets too much, and we give up in frustration.
Then it's too late to do anything anyway.
Remember when twin towers happened and everything stopped flying for a few days, how clear the skies were? It was remarked about constantly, how lovely it was not to have the skies covered in com trails.
When we all entered lockdown, suddenly we could all hear the birds singing, noise pollution was gone, vehicle pollution dropped dramatically, but as soon as we were let out, it all went backwards again.
I'm not saying ( before anyone else does) that we should stay shut up in our houses, but it did show us how things could be better for ourselves and our health if these polluting elements were removed.
As for housing, BR has a good point, and many rural communities are fighting houses being built on green field sites and destroying their communities. I don't know the answer, as refugees will keep coming and coming adding to the problem. I do think that richer people buying up second homes, or air b and b have a great deal to answer for in the cause of housing shortages. Sort that out, and you solve a lot of housing problems straight away. There are thousands of empty properties all over the UK that could be used before building more. To say nothing of the second homes that are empty most of the year,

More than happy for you to stay confused, thats your choice

What I would say is maybe look at the agenda behind the drama

Most of that last rant sounds a bit nimby, almost like you are calling for population control

 

[Suffolkrafter]

I ask this in all seriousness; what agenda?

 

[billycoen]

Could be the Global climate Action Agenda,or not,i dunno.

 

[Woody girl]

More than happy for you to stay confused, thats your choice

What I would say is maybe look at the agenda behind the drama

Most of that last rant sounds a bit nimby, almost like you are calling for population control

I have never called for population control, whereas you suggested it was a solution. I simply asked you how you would implement it .
I'm not ranting, I'm simply asking pertinent questions, which as a lot of people do who don't have an answer and know they are loosing the argument to save face and feel superior, often use that remark as a dismissive gesture. Met it many times. Water off my back and pointless.
Nose in air again, "I'm more than happy for you to stay confused, that's your choice" what a nice person you are!!!! Sigh,

 

[Corso]

I ask this in all seriousness; what agenda?

Control through fear and manipulation while making a health profit

It's a slow burn but they will get there, probably not in our life time but think of the children

Did you ever imagine a few years ago that a common cold virus would shut down the world?

Probably not, but that is just the first wave, next it will be a curtail of liberties based on the risk of global catastophy all the while those in control will be sitting on top of the heap counting their money

 

[Fadcode]

There is no doubt that the Climate is changing, and there is no doubt the Planet is struggling to sustain the growing population. And to me the worst thing is the arguments that the topic causes. People have opinions and to the people who have opinions they are always right, and denying or scientific argument will not change that, either way.
I myself am quite content to note, that the little I do, wont make that much difference, I think the UK have taken steps to help the situation, and until the rest of the world fall in line, the situation is unlikely to change.

Now saying that, the other thing to think about is, what has happened to the planet before, when we were attached to Europe, and the land flooded and created the English Channel, the population of the planet was minimal, there was no industry to emit carbon, etc, it was a natural occurrence, and there were many other natural occurrences, which if they happened today, they would freak most people out.

One thing the focus on climate change has highlighted is the lack of management in the environment we live in, house building on flood plains, removing trees to build houses, allowing rivers to silt up, canals to become closed, when they were an important part of water management, the list can go on, so we can if we are prepared to, rectify quite a lot of things to deal with extreme weather etc.

To me there are quite a few things we can also do to lessen our impact, we could close the internet down, throw our phones away, and save the need for a massive load of electricity to be produced to keeps these things running, but lets ask why should we do these things, well, lets look at the simple microwave oven, this was originally invented by a scientist who walked past a transmitter which melted the chocolate in his pocket ( I can't validate this, but it does make sense), now radio waves do not create heat, unless they are absorbed, so does this mean, that when watch TV, satellite, tinternet or you receive a text, or call on a mobile, transmitted through air waves, are some of those air waves absorbed by our bodies, or the ground around us, they wont heat up the air but they could heat up the atmosphere by the air rising from the ground, or the device itself,etc, an Idea, probably a bit far fetched, but who knows.

Now when I was at school back in the dark ages, I was very interested in geography, the way valleys and mountains were carved out by ice flows etc, I do wonder were all that ice eventually went to, probably caused the separation of all the continents etc, the other thing that interested me and still does, is the winds, the Jet Stream, el Nino and La Nina, which have an effect on worldwide temperatures and weather, the circumnavigation of the worlds oceans were based on knowledge of these wind patterns, and showed their importance. And probably play a part on the weather systems of today, a variance in the Jet. Stream can and does cause havoc, flooding, high winds , storms etc, now we can't control the winds, or can we, any good architect will tell you that one of the considerations when designing tall buildings, is to ensure they do not create a vortex, which can blow people of their feet. So we could surmise that putting a large obstacle in the path of a gust of wind can change it's behaviour so we then need to ask, what effect on the natural direction of the wind, do all these wind turbines and tall buildings have. And has the weather been affected by them?

There are factors we cannot control, like coast erosion, coastal flooding, volcanic eruptions, but there are plenty we can, we can make sure our rivers flow freely, our forests are managed properly, house building is carried out with due diligence on the impact on the environment, and whether or not we believe in Climate Change, we can all reduce our impact, one way or another, we can also put pressure on Corporations and Governments to stop this endless upgrading of goods, we should make sure goods are made to last, not become obsolete after a few years, if we demanded 10 year warranties on high price items, then they would have to be made better, Govt's should think of the environmental damage caused by some of their legislation, like when we all had to throw the TV's away to go digital, and soon all the cars will go as well as the Gas boilers and radiators etc, will these changes cause more emissions than keeping them?

Now I am not against any of the things I have mentioned, but I think it is important to look at the problem in a wide scoped way, rather than focus entirely on our carbon footprint.

And before anyone asks, Yes I am still taking the tablets, and having a nap in the afternoon, when my head hurts..

 

[billycoen]

Brace yourself The Army of the Tin Foil hat is coming. - Brace Yourself - Game of Thrones Meme Meme Generator

Brace yourself The Army of the Tin Foil hat is coming. - Brace Yourself - Game of Thrones Meme

makeameme.org

 

[British Red]

There is no doubt that the Climate is changing, and there is no doubt the Planet is struggling to sustain the growing population. And to me the worst thing is the arguments that the topic causes.

In a nutshell that's why I find it pointless to discuss such matters these days. Whatever the rights & wrongs, people not only cannot agree, but are incapable of disagreeing with civility or based upon evidence - it's become a matter of fervour and faith.

I think I'll return to living a low impact, resilient life and leave the discussing to those who are better suited to it.

 

[Herman30]

How do you propose to do that?

We had a quite a radical nature preserver (he is now deceased) who would have liked a WWIII with millions of dead, to get rid of some on the overpopulation.
This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentti_Linkola

 

[nigelp]

This thread is very close to taking a disturbing and unnecessary turn for the worse.

 

[Woody girl]

Control through fear and manipulation while making a health profit

It's a slow burn but they will get there, probably not in our life time but think of the children

Did you ever imagine a few years ago that a common cold virus would shut down the world?

Probably not, but that is just the first wave, next it will be a curtail of liberties based on the risk of global catastophy all the while those in control will be sitting on top of the heap counting their money

A few facts. We were not shut down by a common cold virus. It is a sars virus, while similar, is not the same, and as events proved, far more deadly.
As for the rest, well, conspiracy theories are rather prominent here, and you are calling the climate activists conspiracy theorists? Kettle pot, black.
Anyway, that gave me a good laugh so thanks for cheering me up no end.
Seems every Tom Dick and Betty is a conspiracy theorist nowadays if they have an opinion that can be backed up by some wacko on the Internet that doesn't agree with one's own opinion.
So, like BR, I'm going back to my low impact and sustainable lifestyle, safe in the knowledge that there are others like me out there. Thank God!