Choose a camera for me - lazy man's guide to cameras!

[Paul_B]

Sorry to be cheeky like this but I'm sick of getting the wrong cameras and I've got a new reason to get one. You guys know more about this than I do so if anyone wanted to help it would be appreciated.

Your brief if you take it up is to suggest a camera for me to use (plus family of partner and 5 year old). Basic point and shoot but I can play at being a photographer with extra functions so jekyll and Hyde.

Budget is the stumbler. As cheap as possible but I am not happy with second hand. I like new. Budget whatever it really needs to be.

Use is family holidays plus days out plus family events plus any time I can sneak out. We are cycle touring so tent and everything for two weeks. Charging is an issue. Recent week away and we lost our phone because no charging opportunity at campsite. I reckon France will have means to charge at campsites or other places though. Phones take priority with charging though.

I'll not damage it so tough isn't needed for me. Son hasn't broken cheap nikon after two years (age 3 to 5) so I think normal camera OK. Pack size isn't great but manageable. We'll find space. I'm on a recumbent so there's space there somewhere.

I like landscape, partner likes family. I like big zooms and features, partner wants a glorified phone without phone function (wants camera and phone to be separate). I like bridge cameras tbh for no clear reason but they feel more substantial than super zooms which might have similar zoom range. Partner likes shove in a pocket.

Two cameras right? Got to be one so someone loses out.

So far I've seen the following that caught my eye. But I'd like to spend less if possible.
Sony hx400 £329
rx100 same price
Hx90 tenner cheaper.
Bridge, superzoom X2 in order.

I've also seen a bridge camera I think from Sony at argos for £129.

CANON Sx620 £180.

I once had a Samsung camera which was highly rated in its price range. Long zoom for the day and even one of the first with WiFi connectivity. Son broke it (as a toddler when my partner let him play with it). I liked that one. Packed small but had a really long zoom range. Early super zoom camera I'd say.

Any suggestions? What about the ones I've suggested?

 

[underground]

I’d suggest a Panasonic LUMIX, based on what I use now in preference to a DSLR.
The TZ70 is about 230 quid, compact and fantastic. I’ve just seen they do a TZ57 which is similar and is under 200 in the electrical shop that sounds like an Indian meal.

If you want bridge, the FZ range is worth a look. Think mine is a FZ72 but it looks like the base model is FZ82 now. Cracking bit of kit.

Both of these have optical zoom to 600mm equivalent and at a good aperture, f2.8 across the whole range IIRC.

 

[Wander]

I have a TZ60.
What I like about it is that it has a reasonable zoom for a pocket camera - x30.
What I LOVE about it is that you can create a local wifi connection between the camera and your phone so the camera can be operated remotely (and you can move pictures back and forth between camera and phone if you take a goochie picture with your camera and then want to send it by SMS to someone). Don't get me wrong, it won't turn it into a trail cam but what you can do, and what I have done, is site the camera overlooking a nest or roosting spot or in front of a badger sett or rabbit warren or anything like that, back off out of the way, and then either video or photograph what turns up without disturbing the wildlife!
If you go into the Wildlife Pictures thread you will see that I posted some pictures of birds about a week ago (as dated by this post). They were all taken on a TZ60.

Do always remember that a bridge camera will always be a compromise. It will never do anything fantastically. If you are lucky it will do some things brilliantly but as the lord giveth he taketh away - for example, bridge cameras with super zoom lenses tend to suffer with macro shots: they just won't auto focus in on the right thing!
That said, you can get some bridge cameras with great zooms on them (check first - like a cheap scope some super zoom cameras aren't worth the full range of the zoom because they lose so much quality).
The up side is that you won't be carrying as much kit (nor expense!) as you would lugging around a DSLR.
But really give it a good hard think what you want the camera for before you buy.
Do you want the zoom or the macro? You can do both, but if the camera is good at one it will probably be poor at the other.

There was mention above of the FZ72. I'd give it a wide berth if I was you. I had one. It was great until mine (and I must say that not all do) fell to a common fault with the FZ72 - dirt on the sensor! A design fault means that dirt can easily get in. If you are not going to be taking it into the great outdoors then no problem. But if you are then do be aware that this is a known shortcoming. Admittedly, not all will suffer, but a disproportionately high number do. Mine did. Which is a shame because up until that point I sodding loved that camera and would have otherwise recommended it. The problem is that access to the sensor is very difficult and will cost you a lot to get done professionally and will probably result in camera death if you try it yourself. Have a Google on 'FZ72 sensor dirt' or something like that. You'll see it's know for it.
But generally speaking the Panasonic Lumix range is a good one because they have Leica lenses (see that little 'L' on the bottom right on the front of the camera).

 

[woodspirits]

Thumbs up for the Sony RX 100, had mine for couple of years now. All the bells and whistles you need as you grow into it, with a Zeiss lens too! Look at the reviews.

 

[Paul_B]

The Sony rx100 I think comes in four versions with increasing cost. I've heard bad things too. IIRC battery isn't great but it could be something else as bad instead.

Panasonic lumix range used to have a good reputation and I think a premium as a result That's why a while ago I got a Samsung camera with a really big zoom range for a compact camera. Early superzoom. It was equivalent to a lumix that was double the price. Is it still the same? If you want a lumix but can't afford it there's usually something almost as good but a lot cheaper?

 

[woodspirits]

The Sony rx100 I think comes in four versions with increasing cost. I've heard bad things too. IIRC battery isn't great but it could be something else as bad instead.

Hi Paul, never had any issues with mine battery or otherwise, that's why I recommended the rx100 can't speak for the other variants though. Like anything man made nothing is perfect and there will always be the exception.

 

[Paul_B]

I tempted by it too.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have had a Sony RX100, Mk I since 2014. It was recommended to me by a friend who knows a bunch of keen DSLR photographers, he said they all had RX100s as their little portable camera. It takes great pictures, has quite a lot of manual control, including a type of manual focus. I used it to take the photos for my US and New Zealand road trips, and the last Stora Le canoe trip I posted here. Quality was plenty good enough to have photos printed to 36" canvas to hang on the wall.

My camera does have a problem. Starting about 18 months ago, any pressure, just a touch, anywhere around the mode select wheel will cause the display to jump to the start screen for another mode. Having the display hop around can make setting up a shot difficult. I have been told that cost of repair would be more than it would be worth. I have not been able to find any posts or information about similar problems that anyone else has had, so it may be a pretty unusual fault. If I was going to get another camera I would be hard pressed to find another camera that ticked my boxes as well as the RX100 does.

Never had any complaints about the battery. I have a spare, and being able to charge it directly in the camera is a big plus, compared to some other (older?) systems that require a separate charger.

Looking at the specs for the different RX100s, the cost and size goes up, but I don't think there is a lot of change to the photographic quality. Later versions may have an electronic view finder, or be able to shoot 4k video, or have wi-fi and a tilt screen, but these are things I have never missed having, just more stuff that could go wrong, and make the camera larger and heavier.

Big sensor, as in the RX range, means you don't have much zoom. I have wished for more, a few times, but I like the low light performance too much to want to swap to a super zoom.

 

[Nomad64]

Sorry to be cheeky like this but I'm sick of getting the wrong cameras and I've got a new reason to get one. You guys know more about this than I do so if anyone wanted to help it would be appreciated.

Your brief if you take it up is to suggest a camera for me to use (plus family of partner and 5 year old). Basic point and shoot but I can play at being a photographer with extra functions so jekyll and Hyde.

Paul_B; below are links to some of the previous “camera recommendation” threads that you have started over the last few years, none of which seem to have resulted in any kind of outcome.

Perhaps I am old fashioned in trying to behave online as I would in the real world, but if I start a thread asking for product recommendations, I endeavour to conclude my involvement in it by (a) thanking those who have provided suggestions, (b) letting people know what I ended up choosing (whether or not I followed recommendations), and (c) how I got on with it.

If people are too “lazy” to make the effort to acknowledge and thank those who take the trouble to provide constructive advice, they will stop bothering and the interweb in general and forums in particular will become dominated by those who just want to use them as a soapbox for their own issues and/or just to wave their w!llies around.

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/i...to-get-better-photographs-on-a-budget.146652/

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/camera-to-record-family-activities.133888/

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/encouraging-photography-in-children.143106/

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/i...oors-use-family-snaps-any-suggestions.127597/

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/i...new-camera-thread-outdoors-pocketable.127592/

 

[Paul_B]

OK. Boy do I regret that lazy title now!

I think I set a poor tone with this thread, especially the title. It seemed a light hearted title initially but I did mean to change it before posting. However BCUK doesn't allow title changes after posting, I tried. In my inept way I was trying not to be just another recommendation thread "recommend me a xyz camera / stove / sleeping bag". I was really trying to get a better feel for how recommended cameras were like to use as well as the recommendations.

Can you remember your previous threads potentially years after you last visited them? If I've asked this question again then I apologise to all those who find this poor etiquette.

IMHO times and cameras change, views change as new features or options come out. So perhaps suggestions change and someone helps another person out with a perfect compromise of a camera suggestion.

In past searches I asked different questions I believe. Such as a camera for my young son, a camera for recording family activities. I believe a travel camera this time is needed.

Also I didn't see any camera that I felt really suited so my partner decided a cheap point and shoot until we had a better idea of our needs or more money.

There's often threads on here without the op telling all their final choice. In all the forums I've frequented (some I've stuck with others I've left) it is not universal practise to reply in that way. I guess photography on BCUK it is the etiquette to do this, I'll remember this in future.

As I said in the opening thread I've bought too many cameras that didn't work as expected for me. I didn't want to waste money, I really don't have much of it spare to do that with.

BTW I've asked similar questions on other sites to get other views. It's often subjective and experience led recommending cameras So asking the questions on more than one place often gets different answers.

At times I don't get time to return as often and time to reply. I'm sorry if that's a problem. It's not a lack of courtesy in traditional sense it's really the way modern communications have gone. Too much going on to keep with a lot of the etiquette of the past. We are less formal than the past perhaps but that doesn't mean offence is meant. So again I apologise.

BTW I've a rambling brain at times so I again apologise for this reply. I flash between ideas I have before I get them down in a post. I'll try to summarise below.

TLR
Sorry for my bad form.
I got a kiddicam for young child thread, cheap point and shoot forced on me by partner until we found something that's right and we still haven't hence repeat threads.
I've a rambling mind and poor communication at times I can only apologise for that not change.

 

[Nomad64]

Paul_B; Apologies if my earlier post came across as an ad hominem attack on you rather than on the general failure by some OPs on "advice please" threads to provide feedback and on reflection it would probably have been better dealt with by a PM and post on the general "Chatter" forum.

FWIW, there is a forum search facility intended to avoid multiple parallel threads which should help members work out what they have asked before (although camera models are replaced with eye-watering frequency), and if advice offered disappears into a virtual blackhole then forum members will be less likely to take the time and trouble to respond to future requests.

I hope you find a camera that fits your needs and look forward to reading your review and seeing some pix!

 

[Paul_B]

Actually I got offended but read your post a few times and the links to my earlier threads. If you notice in my reply the thread kind of started as defence then morphed into apology. I agree with what you posted.

I will try to search more, but to my defence I've never yet managed to navigate a forum's search facility to a positive finding. I'm so bad at searching forums that even when looking for my own posts and threads that I know I've made I can't find them. Some sites have abysmal search functions but even the ones that are good I struggle with. Annoyingly the thread I know about and am looking for is usually about 10 pages of search findings back. Usually I've given up by then but once it twice I've stubbornly kept going so I know that.

There's also another factor here. I have limited funds and a family. Do I buy a £300 bike for my son or a camera and he keeps riding the bike that's too small that he falls off because it this? I buy the good bike because he loves cycling and we tour in the summer. So the pot that's left is smaller. I believe completely in savings for a rainy day, preferably x number of months worth for a rainy day. I could afford a big dslr system (well a half decent one) but give up the safety net?

Then I plain chicken out of the necessary few hundred pounds camera purchase to get something worth having that's decent. Only to return a year later wanting the same thing.

***! I should just go ahead and buy something. I know this but I study specs too much. That formula to tell me what to get all scientifically that is.

But whatever happens, you were right to pull me up on my history on this topic.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Re-reading. Forget the RX100. It is a good camera, but it is neither super small pocket size, nor does it have a big zoom.

Don't even think about a DSLR. Just don't!! Don't even think about an Olympus Micro 4/3. If you want economical and something fairly portable, neither will fill the bill. There is NO point in a camera that gets left at home because it is too big and heavy to carry.

I had my RX100 and was making remarks to the friend that recommended it that I rather fancied a Micro 4/3 with a few lenses. He made me an offer I could not refuse on a Canon 5D Mk2 with a fairly good general zoom lens. I then bought a 50mm fixed lens to have something that worked in lower light. Then I bought a tripod (2nd hand off eBay) to take advantage of the better optics. There is no way I will lug that monster on holiday. I holiday for the experience, not just to take pictures. Those big cameras mean you are out to take pictures, not just take photos along the way. You clearly do not go out to take pictures. Its a habit thing, and a state of mind, and you don't sound like you have either.

Taking pictures, and taking good pictures, isn't just about the camera. I took some great pictures with a humble Canon Ixus 860. I also took a mix of okay and awful pictures with a Lumix DMC-LX3, which was a great camera that I didn't know how to use...and didn't know where or when to point.

You have not said what cameras you have had and not got on with. I can just see a Samsung and phones. Frankly I don't really want to plough through all the previous threads checking more thoroughly It is hard to see what more advice to offer that others have not offered before, or that will help you over the hump to find something you are happy with. Since 2014 what you say you want has changed, but you also say stuff that suggest you haven't given up on those fancies either.

Small, cheap, portable, easy charge, water resistant, DSLR, solid built bridge with super zoom that will be used to take landscape and family snaps...ummm

 

[Paul_B]

I think I just appreciate the benefits of most types of cameras. At one time or other I've wanted each of them.

At some point I'll get a dslr. I used to be into photography back in film days. I looked into developing, done a bit in the past at school and uni photography society. Long time ago and before film. IIRC APS was the new film standard that marketing types were selling cameras for like mad. I want to get back into that style of photography.

After a long period of time using only a nikon cool pix s4600 iirc (4mp early digital) bought when my slr died on holiday. After uni again I got a Samsung WB xxx camera It had a big zoom for the day in a small size, wifi connectivity (a new thing out) and a decent reputation as a good camera in reviews. It broke so it was phone cameras until I got my mind changed and we got a family point and shoot camera.

That's my full camera history, except for the halina focus free compact film camera bought for me when ten or thirteen years old.

I now need a phone that's capable of some of the creative use like a dslr but without separate lens and price tag. Being able to bracket shots, adjust shots from the basic intelligent mode where the camera chooses best settings for the shot in hand all the way to full manual mode. The two techniques I used with film slr was aperture priority and speed priority exposure for example. Any user from child needing point and shoot to my partner who wants that and a little more to me who is similar mostly but looking to play around with the settings to alter the recorded image.

 

[Wander]

You're starting to over-analyse it now.
You're making too much of a meal of it and just tying yourself in knots.

You are never going to get a camera that does everything. With your photographic experience you must realise that. Deal with it.
Think about what's most important to you (family pictures, landscapes, wildlife, macro) and choose accordingly.

Set your budget.
Buy your son that bike - that's the most important purchase.
Then see what's left and if you have enough then get a camera and if not, hold on and save for a bit. Or buy second hand from a reputable dealer to get the model and functions you want. In fact, rather than asking here you may be better off going to a shop and have a look. Then you can see sizes, weights, and functions of the camera. You'll make a much better choice than asking on an internet forum.

As for recommendations? If 20 people respond you'll get 20 different answers. That's why I personally try hard not to do 'can you recommend...' posts. Utterly pointless.
Instead read related posts and see what people are saying about kit without being prompted for it. You'll get a more balanced and honest view.

Stop the agonising and just get on with it.

 

[Paul_B]

One thing I do like macro shots (flowers, plants, insects, etc.) but a good zoom for not much money probably precludes one end of the range.

My smartphone is simply not good enough for macro. My old LG g2 took some cracking macro considering it's a phone even my Samsung g2 did it well.

My old nikon 4mp camera produced one of my best macro shots ever. Helped by an absolute perfect coral fungi with good lighting and a perfect background of old pine needles that when out of focus worked very well. I am not sure my phone would have got as good an image though it has twin lens and 13mp resolution gimmicks.

However most other uses will need a bit of a zoom as a higher requirement. I doubt you'll get a lens capable of good macros and still decent at the high zoom end. It means the macro will be sacrificed.

So I've been looking at a few costing £220-£250. Plus a cheap option at £129. All 25-40x zooms I think. Camera shape is compact or bridge. Do bridge cameras offer much over the compact super zooms at sub£300 price? It seems to me you need more than a £300 spend to get 1" sensors. The bridges and compact shapes all have 1/2.3" sensor size iirc. Does it matter or is there a smaller sensor camera that's actually better than it should be in that price bracket?

I'll see if I can get to Currys this afternoon. Wilkinsons is the only other camera retailer near me and both branches are very small with limited stock. It's actually hard to get hands on a lot of cameras. These shops tend to do cheap then jump to £500+ skipping my price point.

 

[Macaroon]

You just seem to over think and over analyse everything, often you just have to take the plunge however much advice you get. That's how we all learn, eh?

235 posts on your fairly recent dog thread and you ended up with one of your own early candidates for breed; let's see how many this one generates.

 

[Paul_B]

Actually that thread became a bit of a general discussion on dogs by dog owners. I got some very interesting views and advice from it. If the thread had no value to those taking part, other than me, then why did those contributors take part? A couple of pages of advice at most would probably have been the length of the thread. People posted to a thread with information, questions, anecdotes, etc. Just like any other thread. It wasn't just pages of my entries.

It's a forum and people post on the threads they want to post on. It's easy enough to stop reading / posting on one. They do have a life and tend to disappear if nobody adds to them.

 

[Macaroon]

I'm not having a pop at you, just my honest observations. You are, of course, right; threads will go where they go and there's always the off button if you don't want to follow any particular one. I would never dispute that.

As I say, just my observation.

 

[C_Claycomb]

"I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure".
"I was told I over analyse, I don't think I do, but will need to make a spread sheet to be sure."
As an often chronic sufferer of analysis paralysis, I do appreciate your predicament. It is one reason I don't like on-line shopping, too much chance to spend hours comparing features and prices. In addition, I have often found that I talk myself into a purchase based upon a burst of enthusiasm for some subject. It really does me better not to make purchases when I am excited at the prospect.

Mod hat on. I am very conscious that this thread could descend into grilling Paul, which we don't want.

Paul,
You have a style of posting which is almost teasing or provoking. It does not seem intentional, but it clearly draws people in to respond. You ask open questions for which there is no single answer, and there seems to always be follow on questions, sort of a perpetual chain. For whatever reason, when this pattern is noticed, it seems to generate some irritation.

It seems as if you hope for answers that will make all clear and help with a decision, but the questions you ask are not specific and clear cut enough for that to happen.
Example: "Do bridge cameras offer much over the compact super zooms at sub£300 price?"

What kind of answer can there be to that? Whether they offer anything will be subjective, and whether that anything is "much" or not is yet another subjective judgement. There are hard numbers which you yourself would best get by going and comparing spec sheets. There are preferences that people might have on what they like in a camera, but just because I like a feature doesn't make it good for you. To help with a decision you need to be able to build a picture of consensus, but the people in that consensus need to be similar enough in aim to you and each other, that their view is relevant. So what are the chances that you will find half a dozen people on here who have all studied or used both bridge and super-zooms in your price range, for the same purposes you have, who are willing to share their experiences? What if they all used different cameras? Or the cameras they used are no longer on the market? More questions, but no closer to the clarity that is helpful in making a decision.

You would be better off doing your own research via Google, say, search for "Bridge vs super-zoom". Read articles. Live on DPReview for a week. Have you seen how many camera reviews and tutorials there are on Youtube? Figure out what really matters to you, know your priorities, have that nailed down firmly. You will get better information reading posts, articles and reviews by keen photographers than you will posting open ended questions on forums. Especially forums that aren't dedicated to photography. Then go to a camera shop.

Best of luck.