Change to the law

[mrcharly]

This thursday

The change shouldn't affect us, it is the so-called 'zombie knife' legislation.

Link to actual legislation here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/803/article/2/made

Text of the amendment below.

[h=2]Amendment of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988[/h]2.—(1) The Schedule to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988(1) (which specifies offensive weapons for the purposes of section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988) is amended as follows.(2) In paragraph 1, after sub-paragraph (r) insert—

“(s)​

the weapon sometimes known as a “zombie knife”, “zombie killer knife” or “zombie slayer knife”, being a blade with—

(i)​

a cutting edge;

(ii)​

a serrated edge; and

(iii)​

images or words (whether on the blade or handle) that suggest that it is to be used for the purpose of violence.”.

Note the 'AND' in the list. The amendment is to block import and sale of 'sharpened objects' (I'd hesitate to call them 'knives') that glamourise violence. I don't think anyone here has a problem with the intention.
Re-enactment people will have to be careful. Although the legislation is not aimed at them, something like, say, a naval cutlass with a serrated edge would match the description above.

 

[Dave]

Surely that should read....'used for the purpose of violence against zombies'

Completely inane.

Can we see an example of what they mean, by a zombie slayer knife?

I mean its a joke right?

Zombies dont exist, so how can you be prosecuted for carrying a knife designed for killing zombies.

Yes mu lord, we the prosecution believe, that this is in fact a knife designed for killing zombies, and is therefore in breach of section bla bla bla...

Whoever wrote that should go back to law school. :togo:

 

[Jared]

Just a ban on marketing knives for the purposes of slaying zombies.

 

[Dave]

Yeh, but its all about interpretation isnt it? So a local bobby, actually has to think to himself, mmmmmm, is this a zombie killer or not?

Plain stupidity. More regulation, when less is needed.

 

[Jared]

Yeh, but its all about interpretation isnt it? So a local bobby, actually has to think to himself, mmmmmm, is this a zombie killer or not?

Plain stupidity. More regulation, when less is needed.

Yeah.

I think it's Kabar that basically changes the colour of the handle of some of their models from black to neon green and markets them as their zombie line.

Same knives, but now one will fall foul.

 

[mrcharly]

The bobbie doesn't need to interpret anything. If the so-called knife is marketed or marketed as being for 'zombie-killing' or for fighting, killing or anything similar, then it is covered by this legislation.

 

[santaman2000]

So a Klingon bat'leth is still Ok?

 

[Dave]

If the so-called knife is marked or marketed as being for 'zombie-killing' or for fighting, killing or anything similar, then it is covered by this legislation.

Yeh which is stupid. Jobs for the boys.

 

[Dave]

So a Klingon bat'leth is still Ok?

Yes, until a movie comes out where Klingons battle zombies I guess.

 

[Dave]

The bobbie doesn't need to interpret anything.

Surely a policeman has to make a decision, on whether someone carrying a knife, has the right to do so? So therefore he is interpreting the law?

[And if he doesnt know I guess he calls the duty sargeant, and asks him for his interpretation?]

What happens if tom and joe are carrying a knife which is exactly the same, except toms is marked as a zombie killer, but joes is not?

 

[GGTBod]

There goes the whittling hobby, it is always the minority who spoil it for the masses, just because some idiot goes lopping some other idiots arm off and when locked up calls it his 'zomby killin nyfe' means i can't buy intricate whittling tools with creatively shaped blades and hooks and serrations and jagged edges about them, you'll be saying next i have to give up my studded knuckle duster machete in some sort of amnesty next, i tell ye between the liberals and the fascists this country is going PC crackers.












































I know it is always hard to tell online if someone in writing is being sarcastic or not but if that did not set your sarcasm alarm off then you might need help

 

[brambles]

Whoever wrote that should go back to law school.

Back to politician school, you mean ( except there is no such thing as there exists no requirement for any form of qualification on order to tell the rest of us what to do ) , laws are written by politicians and civil servants, not lawyers.

Yeh, but its all about interpretation isnt it? So a local bobby, actually has to think to himself, mmmmmm, is this a zombie killer or not?

Unfortunately, the way things work in the real world mean that the local bobby will think to himself "Hmmm , how can I class this as a zombie killer and charge him?"

 

[Nic Le Becheur]

I took a look at the (already much-amended) section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, and there are listed all manner of weird and wonderful gizmos with Japanese-looking names which I assume are part of a ninja (or wannabe ninja) armoury and completely unknown to normal people. Perhaps, like zombie knives are now, these were some kind of nerdy fashion at the time. I don't recall. For example:

"SCHEDULE
Article 2

1. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons) shall apply to the following descriptions of weapons, other than weapons of those descriptions which are antiques for the purposes of this Schedule:

... (f) the weapon sometimes known as a "hollow kubotan" , being a cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes;

...

(h) the weapon sometimes known as a "shuriken" , "shaken" or "death star" , being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more sharp radiating points and designed to be thrown;

(l) the weapon sometimes known as a "kusari gama" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle;

(m) the weapon sometimes known as a "kyoketsu shoge" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife;

(n) the weapon sometimes known as a "manrikigusari" or "kusari" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip;" (etc).

And, incidentally, I notice that the courts have ruled that a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article (Booker v DPP 169J.P. 368, DG).


But I really don't think bushcrafters have anything to fear from this cosmetic addition to an already bizarre law even more bizarrely interpreted by the judiciary. Most policemen I've met are sensible creatures: in 15 years of historical re-enactment I was only stopped once for carrying a sword openly in public, and that was only to ask me to tie the hilt in to the scabbard.

Nick.

 

[dwardo]

My guess is you will just see them re-branded without the "Zombie" bit.

Seems the Zombie thing has just been sucked up by the marketing people lately. you even see kids toys and i mean 5+ that are "zombie" themed.

I rekon zombie knife test should be "whittle me a spoon or a try stick and if you still have your fingers left at the end and have made the object you can keep it"

 

[santaman2000]

I took a look at the (already much-amended) section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, and there are listed all manner of weird and wonderful gizmos with Japanese-looking names which I assume are part of a ninja (or wannabe ninja) armoury and completely unknown to normal people. Perhaps, like zombie knives are now, these were some kind of nerdy fashion at the time. I don't recall. For example:

"SCHEDULE
Article 2

1. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons) shall apply to the following descriptions of weapons, other than weapons of those descriptions which are antiques for the purposes of this Schedule:

... (f) the weapon sometimes known as a "hollow kubotan" , being a cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes;

...

(h) the weapon sometimes known as a "shuriken" , "shaken" or "death star" , being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more sharp radiating points and designed to be thrown;

(l) the weapon sometimes known as a "kusari gama" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle;

(m) the weapon sometimes known as a "kyoketsu shoge" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife;

(n) the weapon sometimes known as a "manrikigusari" or "kusari" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip;" (etc).

And, incidentally, I notice that the courts have ruled that a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article (Booker v DPP 169J.P. 368, DG). ....

All of those are true historical martial arts weapons that are still taught. Almost all serious martial artists (traditional artists anyway) know what all of them are and have trained in at least one to advance in rank (very likely the reason they made the exception for antiques; although logically there should also be an exception for training purposes)

Pretty much every ordinary person (not involved in martial arts) over the age of 45 remembers most of them from the movies of the late 60s through-out the 70s.

My guess is you will just see them re-branded without the "Zombie" bit.

Seems the Zombie thing has just been sucked up by the marketing people lately. you even see kids toys and i mean 5+ that are "zombie" themed.

I rekon zombie knife test should be "whittle me a spoon or a try stick and if you still have your fingers left at the end and have made the object you can keep it"

Yeah, I think the "zombie" thing is just the latest trend. Hence my post about the Klingon bat'leth. Every few years something new comes along.

 

[Corso]

I took a look at the (already much-amended) section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, and there are listed all manner of weird and wonderful gizmos with Japanese-looking names which I assume are part of a ninja (or wannabe ninja) armoury and completely unknown to normal people. Perhaps, like zombie knives are now, these were some kind of nerdy fashion at the time. I don't recall. For example:

"SCHEDULE
Article 2

1. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons) shall apply to the following descriptions of weapons, other than weapons of those descriptions which are antiques for the purposes of this Schedule:

... (f) the weapon sometimes known as a "hollow kubotan" , being a cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes;

...

(h) the weapon sometimes known as a "shuriken" , "shaken" or "death star" , being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more sharp radiating points and designed to be thrown;

(l) the weapon sometimes known as a "kusari gama" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle;

(m) the weapon sometimes known as a "kyoketsu shoge" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife;

(n) the weapon sometimes known as a "manrikigusari" or "kusari" , being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip;" (etc).

And, incidentally, I notice that the courts have ruled that a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article (Booker v DPP 169J.P. 368, DG).


But I really don't think bushcrafters have anything to fear from this cosmetic addition to an already bizarre law even more bizarrely interpreted by the judiciary. Most policemen I've met are sensible creatures: in 15 years of historical re-enactment I was only stopped once for carrying a sword openly in public, and that was only to ask me to tie the hilt in to the scabbard.

Nick.

Inane legislation brought to you by some idiot who looked at a battle orders shogun advert and said ban this lot - if the guy had Nunchaku in stock at the time they would have been banned too…

This new legislation is utter pointlessness – Marketing violent knives has been banned for a while.....

 

[Samon]

They will regret this! all it takes is one, just ONE zombie outbreak and we're all forked!

 

[Konkreet Kow]

Hi All,

Just politicians unnecessarily adding to an already complicated mess of an act to claim they're tackling problem of idiots with sharp things doing harm to themselves and others.

My interpretation is this now bans import and sale of any dangerous object that has gorey images or wording of which there are many thanks to popularity of zombies in film and TV at the moment as they did with "Ninja" weapons in 80's as said previously.

Doesn't change law on ownership but doesn't have to as almost all "zombie" blades I've seen would instantly be confiscated by PC Plod as clearly breach EDC rules not a tool for use in genuine work or hobby.

 

[IC_Rafe]

It's mostly to stop the "crazies" blades. Things like these without most practical use, clearly designed for injuring something instead of for a normal task.

vs a normal machete.

Things like this clearly have only one goal, maiming.

 

[santaman2000]

It's mostly to stop the "crazies" blades. Things like these without most practical use, clearly designed for injuring something instead of for a normal task.

vs a normal machete.

Things like this clearly have only one goal, maiming.

Actually their "one goal" is selling. An ordinary bayonet doesn't sell very well.