Can of worms..

[sirex]

maybe its just me, but i take quite a lot of gear (70L backpack or so), but i also take almost the same gear for 'crafting as i do for day walks, overnight hikes, and stays on the brecons. I prefer taking roughly the same gear as i know what i have and what i can do with it. Most of it is safety gear / extra clothing anyhow. The weight isnt really an issue. im pretty large and i dont route march at jogging speed, besides im accustomed to it now.

you get attached to your set of gear after a while i dont think id want to add anything to my kit, or remove anything either really. i have gear for wet weather, dry weather, cold and hot. open fires, and gas cooker dinners. I always take an alpkit rollmat and foam mat to protect my tent and my back, but i dont go so far as to have things hanging off the sides of my backpack clanging around.

Do whatever works for you I'm sure i take less kit than others, and more than some. None of us have to carry nature on our backs, so the most important thing is there waiting for us.

 

[crazyclimber]

and re the trail comment... nothing against trail readers, I pick it up myself sometimes... but in my experience half the 'all the gear, no idea' types I've met on the hills have got their inspiration from it!

 

[trail2]

This reminds me of the "Traditional Archery" scene here in the US. If you don't have a $1200 custom O L Adcock bow , dress in the same clothes as Fred Bear and carry $500 worth of fur on your back to carry your $200 a dozen arrows you just ain't"Trad" Me I shoot a self bow and stick my home made arrows in the back pocket of my jeans. Am I less than you? by your account Yes!
When I go to the woods I carry just enough to make thing comfortable. If I take my boys I take more.
I don"t whittle spoons (I carry one)and I don't make breakfast from dodgy mushrooms.
I carry oatmeal. I go to enjoy myself .(ENJOY thats the operative word) and don't give a rats patoot about what you carry.
Sorry for the rant,:aargh4: I"m off to Knapp some blades. (you don't do that? Hmmm not a "Bushcrafter then )
Jon R.

 

[sirex]

Me I shoot a self bow and stick my home made arrows in the back pocket of my jeans.

mark my words, this practice will end with a unfortunate, but highly amusing injury.

 

[elevenses]

HaHa, I'm about to open a BIG one

Not aimed at everybody here but something troubles me about some of you "bushcrafters"

Kit

Frankly, I'm surprised some of you don't invent a fold-up caravan to take with you

I've seen alsorts sofar, Tents, huge teepees (sometimes including a woodburner and large chimney) I've seen people arrive at meets towing a cart full of all manner of stuff, lanterns etc. And I know it's a favourite but the sheer effort involved in having a spit - roast pig and the way meets seem to revolve around it is phenominal not to mention rediculous No offence to those involved, and understandable at bigger meets but wouldn't your time be better spent doing what you're there to do rather than obsessing over a bl@@dy pig!?

I know, I know - we've seen RM do most of these things on telly and why not make yourself comfortable when you're out and about?

BUT, where's the whole spirit of bushcraft gone!? I thought, in many ways, the whole idea of bushcraft was to make yourself comfortable with a few essentials (knife, axe, minimal sleeping stuff and cooking stuff) and use "bush-craft" to make yourself / improvise or whatever with what's around you!?

To me, the ammount of kit some take with them is more than I'd take in my car when going to a campsite for the week in a tent with the family I'd be ashamed of myself if I felt I needed to take so much for a weekend "roughing it" in the woods :sad6:

Just an observation

I understand that not everyone wants to do the same thing you should not get yourself worked up over this.
The last meet I went to I was in a bivi bag under a tarp did not take a pan and cooked either in my cup or on my steel plate there where people there with trolly loads of stuff one did come in a caravan. do I think any less of them ? no do I know what they practice or do when they camp on their own? no do I care? no not really
what I do care about is that I met some great people who are willing to put up with me and share knowledge and I had a great time.
I was called strange because I put 2 parsnips on the fire for my dinner while other people cooked all manner of fantastic dishes, I was made up to me strange is good.
If you think about it we are all strange to someone

 

[Walks with dogs]

and re the trail comment... nothing against trail readers, I pick it up myself sometimes... but in my experience half the 'all the gear, no idea' types I've met on the hills have got their inspiration from it!

I know what you mean, I mainly like the ginger girlie in it - if only to annoy Mrs WWD.

 

[addo]

I was called strange because I put 2 parsnips on the fire for my dinner while other people cooked all manner of fantastic dishes, I was made up to me strange is good.
If you think about it we are all strange to someone

I love parsnips, may give that a go next time i'm out, I never eat enough veg. To full of oatcakes

 

[crazyclimber]

If you think about it we are all strange to someone

not strange... unique!

if you think about it we're all strange by 'normal' standards. There are plenty who don't, and never will, see the logic in sleeping in woods or mountains when you've got a perfectly good bed at home!

 

[crazyclimber]

I know what you mean, I mainly like the ginger girlie in it - if only to annoy Mrs WWD.

can just picture it

 

[Grooveski]

Reading through this makes me glad I've never come across gear or anti-gear snobbery at meets. Have been to a dozen or so and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist.

There's plenty of comparison chatter. "Is that a [blar-de-blar]? How do you get on with it?" - that kind of thing, but never any kind of mockery(barring verbal sparring between folk who know each other well enough to know when a bit of cheek isn't going to cause offence).
Plenty of bushy banter as well. What folk have been up to and blethering about things they've tried or heard of. There's some of your "Spirit of bushcraft" - a willingness to share information.

I take as little or as much gear as I feel like and no-one ever blinks an eye one way or another. Meets rarely have much in common with my own outdoor jaunts but I don't expect them to.
On occassion I've mixed the two. Going light and early to the meet area or paddling in. Kind of lets you tune into your own outdoor vibe before the meet begins. It's nice but it's not going to stop me from piling the car full of bows, bosses and boats if that's the mood I happen to be in at the time.

As for proper bushcraft, I agree with the folk who point out that thirty-odd axe wielders all deciding to make shelters for the night would be too high-impact. That sort of thing is for low number groups at selected locations spread over a high area - for doing in plantations where there's tons of low ecology windfalls or a bunch of rhodies the landowner wanted shot of or the likes. At most of the meet locations I've seen general axe-happiness would be frowned upon.

 

[trail2]

sirex
Only blunts and target nibs need apply And I always make sure I have an old slip in leather spectacle case in the pocket.
Jon R.

 

[Wayland]

Well, these threads have come up quite a few times over the years. Maybe it's time we get serious about it and start the Bushcraft Police Force. Anyone who doesn't conform to the proper standards should be dealt with severely. ::twak: This should apply not just to kit, but to thoughts as well.

Big Brother is already watching you Hoodoo......

Snip> I always carry a small Bic butane lighter. I'm sure that some purist would have a seizure if he saw me use it, but to me the object is to start a fire not a political debate.<Snip

I recall a meet I was at where I lit the communal fire and I heard someone behind me saying "I'm surprised to see Wayland lighting the fire with a match."

I waited a moment as the flames caught and then his mate said, "Aye, but only one....."

Noob here. Snip>

To me the only attributes that should be mandatory in everyone claiming to be bushcrafters are a genuine love for the outdoors and a passion for having as small an impact on that environment as possible. So, purely IMVHO a small tent/tarp is often more bushcrafty than constructing a palatial lean-to shelter from natural materials yet I can see why some people might disagree with that.

Spot on.

Snip> I made a schoolboy error in that my roll mat was touching my tarp (I hadn't noticed) and I got absolutely soaked. YES, I could've dried my stuff by the fire (and would have if I had no choice) but all things considered; (not knowing anyone, not really being able to afford to be there, the way the weather was and the fact nothing was really going on) I decided I'd call it a day and make more of an effort next time round. To be honest, I was embaressed and annoyed at myself for making such a stupid mistake.

No need to be embarrassed, we've all been there at some point or other. Another reason I turn up with a van full of kit at meets is so I have some spare stuff in case of problems and more often than not it gets lent out to someone who needs it or just wants to try out something different.

Reading through this makes me glad I've never come across gear or anti-gear snobbery at meets. Have been to a dozen or so and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist.

There's plenty of comparison chatter. "Is that a [blar-de-blar]? How do you get on with it?" - that kind of thing, but never any kind of mockery(barring verbal sparring between folk who know each other well enough to know when a bit of cheek isn't going to cause offence).
Plenty of bushy banter as well. What folk have been up to and blethering about things they've tried or heard of. There's some of your "Spirit of bushcraft" - a willingness to share information.<Snip

That's been my experience too. I've stretched my canvas out with many different types of people and in person I've found "bushcrafters" to be some of the least judgemental people I've shared a fire with.

Odd how it often changes when we get behind our keyboards though.

 

[firecrest]

I think you have completely missed the point novemberrain , you are showing some degree of ignorance about the praticality of bushcraft at a meet.

Like it or not, bushcraft is destructive.

we cannot go to meets and all build a natural shelter, or even just one.
We cannot all build our own fires, so a certain amount of "forbidden" kit is needed. The woods would be in a lot worse state if some of us didnt bring camping stoves and hobos.
We cannot all sleep in hammocks - there isnt enough trees.
We cannot all sleep in bivis - it is not to everybodys taste and the right kit for winter is expensive.
The more kit that is brought in, the less impact there is on the local environment. You might think of yourself as a true bushcrafter by turning up to meets, making your own fire and shelter ect, but to do so is selfish.

Besides, what part of bushcraft involves ANY kit? we can all get high and mighty, That tarp of yours is modern , the bivi and sleeping bag had millions of pounds of technology poured into it, your magnesium firesteel is no more traditional as a bic lighter and BBQ fuel. Your axe was made in a forge with metal bought and shipped from elsewhere.
And what the heck are you bringing rice for you ameteur?! does it grow in this country? was technology used to dry it and ship it and put it in a pack for you? Can you explain all process of rice cultivation and exportation and tell me its country of origin? probably not, hence you know nothing about where your food came from. why, you should be eating plants and worms at these meets!!
What do you know about flint knapping? and plants? and tracking? This is real bushcraft, its not about kit at all, not even your "basic" kit qualifies, because it too is modern technology designed to save you the the job of building a shelter(real bushcraft), learning how to stay warm at night(real bushcraft)and foraging for your own food(real bushcraft)

 

[Opal]

I think you have completely missed the point novemberrain , you are showing some degree of ignorance about the praticality of bushcraft at a meet.

Like it or not, bushcraft is destructive.

we cannot go to meets and all build a natural shelter, or even just one.
We cannot all build our own fires, so a certain amount of "forbidden" kit is needed. The woods would be in a lot worse state if some of us didnt bring camping stoves and hobos.
We cannot all sleep in hammocks - there isnt enough trees.
We cannot all sleep in bivis - it is not to everybodys taste and the right kit for winter is expensive.
The more kit that is brought in, the less impact there is on the local environment. You might think of yourself as a true bushcrafter by turning up to meets, making your own fire and shelter ect, but to do so is selfish.

Besides, what part of bushcraft involves ANY kit? we can all get high and mighty, That tarp of yours is modern , the bivi and sleeping bag had millions of pounds of technology poured into it, your magnesium firesteel is no more traditional as a bic lighter and BBQ fuel. Your axe was made in a forge with metal bought and shipped from elsewhere.
And what the heck are you bringing rice for you ameteur?! does it grow in this country? was technology used to dry it and ship it and put it in a pack for you? Can you explain all process of rice cultivation and exportation and tell me its country of origin? probably not, hence you know nothing about where your food came from. why, you should be eating plants and worms at these meets!!
What do you know about flint knapping? and plants? and tracking? This is real bushcraft, its not about kit at all, not even your "basic" kit qualifies, because it too is modern technology designed to save you the the job of building a shelter(real bushcraft), learning how to stay warm at night(real bushcraft)and foraging for your own food(real bushcraft)

 

[In Wood]

Oh come on guys.

If a person wants to bring every bit of modern gagetry with them then fine, if you want to come with just the organic clothes on your back and a flint knife that's fine too.
What you will find is a good bunch of folks who want to know what that new gizmo is and a good bunch of folks who admire you for your basic approch and skills.

Who are we to judge one an other.

as Wayland said, we are not judgmental at meets so why on here.

Oh Gary, it was me who said about you using the match, and yes it was given and taken in the spirit it was intended. Thats what friends do.

 

[sapper1]

People are entitled to pass comment on my kit and the amount I take .I will take on board their comments and adjust my load to their standards............On condition that they carry it.'Til then they should count themselves lucky that by the time I reach a site I'm to knackered to care what anybody says about my kit(unless it's nice things).

 

[firecrest]

I was being facetious. My point was that people shouldnt point out the splinter in others eyes when there is a plank in their own.

 

[Cobweb]

I like minimal kit, it's not heavy and you can pack out and pack up pretty quickly, would I go to a meet with minimal kit? No.
Why? Because I am not going home the next day.

Think about it, years ago our ancestors lived in caves and then later on built houses. They didn't have minimal kit for everyday use, they had a permanent fire, comfy beds a change of clothes, seats, fresh and dried food...

To build their homes, they initially depleted their immediate surroundings for wood and materials, with minimal impact and a little care the homes they built kept dry and strong. The woods and resources recovered eventually and were not depleted, there was a balance. If the thatching leaked in a certain place, they patched it, if the daub broke away, they patched it. They didn't move on and build a brand new house.

Hunting trips were carried out with a few people from the same village who most likely if they were out for a while, say three days or more would build a semi permanent shelter, not individually, but as a group and would all sleep together under that shelter, saving firewood for heating as they would be keeping each other warm. There is also evidence that they would have used tents.

While on the hunting trip, they would probably eat jerky and little nibbles from the plants and trees they passed as they were tracking, if they ate at all! The adrenaline from the chase would have suppressed their appetite quite well, and as everyone knows you can go for three weeks without starving to death.Once they have captured their kill they would eat the liver as a rite of passage but more importantly, giving them a massive boost allowing them to prepare the animal & carry back home.

While they are hunting, back home others are gathering and preserving grass seeds, wheat, barley fruits ect.

When the hunters return they are no doubt really hungry so the tradition of a feast comes into play.

So what I'm trying to say is that our ancestors used to use minimal kit, bows and arrows and a knife only on short hunting trips. They would be very comfortable back at home with lots of 'creature comforts' as someone put it. For longer hunting trips, I believe they would have used tents and be nomadic, much like the Native American Indians used to. Building a shelter every time you moved would've been a waste of time and energy.


For me, bushcraft is about learning forgotten skills, be it which wood burns best, how to tablet weave, how to spin thread from fleece, how to preserve perishables using natural materials instead of glass jars in the fridge or freezer, and so forth.

I see meets as a chance to exchange skills, not to prove to others how I can survive with a small bit of flint.

I'm with Wayland on this...

I use what works for me, I have a tarp and a hammock, it's not as light as a bivvy bag but it's not as heavy as a tent, for me it does fine.

I have a knife, an axe and sometimes a small saw. I take in my own food because I believe that a group of ten to twenty people all foraging from a small area is going to strip the natural resources.

I'll make fire if I can but I'll keep it small and set my tarp up to catch as much heat as possible. I don't make it huge to warm me all night I use modern day furs, otherwise known as sleeping bags.

If I want a tripod of something I'll spend time looking for strong enough fallen wood, I don't believe we need to cut down trees for the sake of a couple of day;s luxury, there is enough on the ground if you look hard enough.

I have a chair for comfort and to use as a table if needed. I don't whittle a spoon every time I go out, I would end up with too many spoons to know what to do with, I have a lovely beech one that Russ gave me and a small wooden teaspoon that I take along, they work fine, take up no room and are not robbing nature of another tree.

 

[John Fenna]

Hmm - just sorting my kit for next w/e's meet....
Criky I take a lot!
2 mugs - so I can offer passers by a drink
Bake stone - for fresh bannock
Billy - large so others can share
Axe, saw, 3 knives - for various tasks
2 flint & steel kits - let others try
Lighter and Swedish fire steel - incase I run out of char cloth!
Trivet - for the bakestone
Spoons, pot hooks and spatula - cooking and eating
Wooden bowl - cooking and eating
Parachute - for group use
Tarp, bivibag, hammock, ground mat - for versitility and so I dont have a wet bivvi...
Spare warm wear - for the evenings
1st aid kit - for the obvious
Wash kit - so I dont stink
Water bottles - no water on site
Torch - it gets dark!
P bottle - ....

And then there is all the otherstuff that will stay in the van until needed - like
"making gear" (natural glues, cordage and bark for cords, spoon knives, sewing kit friction fire set etc) for demos should anyone want a try
Spare cook kit, bivvi kit tarps etc- incase someone comes short of something.
Spare clothing - in case I or someone else gets too wet....

All the gear I have to sell or trade (lots this time - had a clear out!)
When I slept out the other night I had..
Hammock
Tarp
Quilt and underblanket
P bottle
Torch
knife
Not even a cook set - I was going out after dinner, home for breakfast....
Horses for courses....

 

[sapper1]

2 mugs so I can offer passers by a drink.??????????
I walked passed your camp many times John, not even a whiff of tea!
Only Joking,John.
I think lots of us carry to much kit for what we plan to do,but then plans change and it's handy to have extra kit.