Can of worms..
- Thread starter novembeRain
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you should have sat in the car park under your tarp with a wild rabbit on a stick.. Mmmm, bushcraft is a great thing.. 
Anyone that wants to bring a ton and a half of kit to one of my meets go at it I love checking out everyones kit and what they have with them makes for great conversation around the camp and as for the pig cookout bring that along too I wont be complaining YUM....
In the end its what works for you folks your not the one carrying someone else's kit!
In the end its what works for you folks your not the one carrying someone else's kit!
Huuuuuge rucksacks, very new looking kit... I'm not saying they were Trail readers
Ah I shouldn't complain. Let them enjoy the outdoors in whatever way they like and all that, but some people do test you...!
And whats wrong with being a Trail reader then?
still reading this thread and catching up so I have no idea what is to come but cheers John - that put a BIG grin on my faceWhat! - lend my nice dry clean gear to a stranger?
They might get it muddy!
No way!
My gear is for me, to show how great I am at gathering vast amounts of expensive stuff
Why should I share with folk who have proven to be incapable of looking after themselves?
No - I will sit and watch them suffer and
oh - sorry - wrong forum......
tom
edit - ah caught up now - trail is the extreme opposite of what my wife's definition of what i do is - she calls it "outdoor pursuits for blokes with beer bellies" -
plus there's far too many pretty people in trail 
As with so much - you get what you pay for......
The quality of the food was fine, the method of cooking was poor
At the time, I said it was sensible for you to go, if your kit was wet and you couldn't get it dry. I think I also said there is no need to rough it! I still think it was for the best, and I hope you learnt a thing or two from it. What has wound me up is you then running folk down who brought lots of kit. If that is what they need to be comfortable in the woods then nobody has the right to criticise that.
Remember, failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
In Australia we don't really have much in the way of a bush-craft movement (or at least I have not encountered such a group). This is a pity, as I do love the ethos behind the movement as it unifies a lot of disparate interests. But maybe the downside to creating such a community/movement is that people start defining what it is to be a Bush craft person as opposed to celebrating the diversity of interests and styles of practitioners.
What I have noticed over the years is that there are many ways to enjoy the wilderness and I have gravitated through many styles of trekking from novice (carrying an enormous pack) to ultra lightweight. At times I have found myself judgmental of others only to see the enjoyment of their ways a few years down the track. I once rolled my eyes in amusement at the car campers and now years later and with a family of my own, I am one myself. I want to introduce my kids and wife to the enjoyment of the outdoor lifestyle and making their experience a comfortable one is necessary.
So now I find myself enjoying the outdoors in a variety of ways depending on the circumstances. By being open minded to others it is surprising what you may learn. The individuals at your moot that you deride for all the gear they carry may in conversation turn out to be skilled practitioners at varying aspects of the outdoors lifestyle (some maybe tools). One of my friends has a very different approach to outdoors pursuits than myself with respect to gear and kit, yet hes knowledge of botany is unsurpassed and I have learnt a lot from him. Diversity is always a good thing in my book.
What I have noticed over the years is that there are many ways to enjoy the wilderness and I have gravitated through many styles of trekking from novice (carrying an enormous pack) to ultra lightweight. At times I have found myself judgmental of others only to see the enjoyment of their ways a few years down the track. I once rolled my eyes in amusement at the car campers and now years later and with a family of my own, I am one myself. I want to introduce my kids and wife to the enjoyment of the outdoor lifestyle and making their experience a comfortable one is necessary.
So now I find myself enjoying the outdoors in a variety of ways depending on the circumstances. By being open minded to others it is surprising what you may learn. The individuals at your moot that you deride for all the gear they carry may in conversation turn out to be skilled practitioners at varying aspects of the outdoors lifestyle (some maybe tools). One of my friends has a very different approach to outdoors pursuits than myself with respect to gear and kit, yet hes knowledge of botany is unsurpassed and I have learnt a lot from him. Diversity is always a good thing in my book.
It is a pity there's no bushcrafting movement in Oz. If anything, the concept of going out bush and working on skills seems to be sneered at in any outdoors shop, or when mentioned to other bushwalkers. Apparently the only thing to do in the bush is walk through it. And that's it!
Shame.
Yes that is the mentailty of a lot of people out here. I think there are individuals in Australia doing many of the activities associated with Bushcraft as practised in the UK, just dispersed throughout the country.
It takes a long time to make a bed of balsam or spruce tips, it's unsightly unless it's in a remote area, and it gets sap all over your sleeping bag.
So I can hang it in the peak of my pyramid tent and read or sort gear.
It's quicker and uses less wood than an open fire, it's legal where open fires are not, and it doesn't leave a scar on the ground.
See above.
"We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home." George Washington Sears
To me, the ammount of kit some take with them is more than I'd take in my car when going to a campsite for the week in a tent with the family
This thread has me confused.
My camping tent poles are heavier than my big bushcraft kit.
Which is what I might use at a moot, because it is my tent. Fight for tree space for tarp, or put up tent.....
When I camp, it is a home away from home, without the pain in the neck that is a caravan. If I have to carry it, I think twice about water weight.
Part of my hobo stove design process is a meths burner holder to use on the trail, for were I would get grief for a fire.
I know what the problem is actually novembeRain scout camps, never have a taken as much kit as when I was a scout leader, it is what Wayland said, if you do not bring it that is what they will all want to do.
Here in the Colonies, there is an old Indian saying that you may or may not have heard. I don't know whether or not it has crossed the Atlantic. It goes like this: "White man build big fire and sit way back. Indian build little fire and sit up close." Almost every time in my life that I have went camping someone has repeated this saying, because invariably we were all sitting around a huge campfire that was too hot to get very close to. I think it is safe to say that this wise Indian's observation about whites and Indians could be applied to many areas. How about: "white man carry much kit, travel short distance. Indian carry little kit, travel great distance." In my own case, I have went from big fires and lots of gear, to an alcohol burning pepsi can stove and a small twig stove that takes apart and forms five flat pieces. You know, we are all, on some level, either a "white man" or an "Indian." Neither one is "right," and neither one is "wrong." Only, in this case it is not a cultural difference, it is just a personal difference. So, lets all cut each other some slack and quit being obsessive about what the other guy has or doesn't have.
If i'm going into the woods of a weekend or attending one of our fantastic South Wales meets, i'll take as little kit as i can. By that i mean the minimum i need. That's MYneeds. It's nothing to do with anyone else what i take along.
If i take Jed Jnr, i take his kit and my kit and we will sleep in our 3 man tent. The reason i take a tent is personal security for Jed.
If i take Sharon, Jed, Lowan, Jack and Alfie, I'll take the 4 Man Tent and all OUR kit, The kit WE need. What does that make us, if you have to put a label on it?
If i take Jed Jnr, i take his kit and my kit and we will sleep in our 3 man tent. The reason i take a tent is personal security for Jed.
If i take Sharon, Jed, Lowan, Jack and Alfie, I'll take the 4 Man Tent and all OUR kit, The kit WE need. What does that make us, if you have to put a label on it?
Is a male practitioner of the arts of Bushcraft a "Bushman"?
Was the phrase realy coined in Australia?
I have a book "Skils of the Australian Bushman" by Ron Edwards which deals with making Billy cans, camp ovensetc (some as seen in RMs Walkabout prog...) AND boat building, musical instruments, bridges, horse harness, toys, bush chairs, tables, hurdles, houses, leatherwork etc etc etc
Stuff for realy living in the Bush - not just fleeting visits with as little as you can get away with.
The crafts of Bush living, or as it is more commonly known - Bushcraft
Was the phrase realy coined in Australia?
I have a book "Skils of the Australian Bushman" by Ron Edwards which deals with making Billy cans, camp ovensetc (some as seen in RMs Walkabout prog...) AND boat building, musical instruments, bridges, horse harness, toys, bush chairs, tables, hurdles, houses, leatherwork etc etc etc
Stuff for realy living in the Bush - not just fleeting visits with as little as you can get away with.
The crafts of Bush living, or as it is more commonly known - Bushcraft
Chinkapin there is a version quoted here which is very apt - "White man makes big fire, keeps warm collecting wood; Red man makes small fire, keeps warm by fire"
