Can of worms..

[C_Claycomb]

Okay, I'll bite, although its somewhat against my better judgement

I fully agree with everyone who says that Meets are different (or can be). You are out for a social event, you want to spend your time chatting to people and possibly trying to pick up new skills. Much of the kit that goes along to Meets isn't really anything to do with the practice of bushcraft. However, if you had to carve all your eating utensils, build a natural shelter, gather your own food, snare a couple of rabbits and weave a sleeping bag, you would probably not have much time to chat with friends from afar

Of course, if you wish to treat every camping trip as practice for your next ultra-minimalist expedition, that's cool too, but a lot of people can find learning a few skills during the day, then just camping through the night to be challenge enough. I try, usually with but limited success, to pack my bag as if I will have to carry it a long way, but the car will still be loaded with socialising kit - the lanern, chair, larger tarp, big pot, kettle, latest craft work and random tools and materials. This isn't needed to spend the time outdoors, but much of it is often needed to participate in the Meet.

 

[Nyayo]

When I was a kid, me and my pal would often track stray cattle off into the bush; when we got hungry we'd find some acacia buds or baobab nuts to snack on. When we got chilly we'd make a fire, and when it rained we'd stop and make a quick rain shelter. It was only when I came here that I realised I'd been 'doing bushcraft' all those years ago!

 

[Steve M]

... but wouldn't your time be better spent doing what you're there to do rather than obsessing over a bl@@dy pig!?

Maybe they are there to spit roast a pig.

(knife, axe, minimal sleeping stuff and cooking stuff)

That's loads! How about a pen knife and a blanket?

 

[John Fenna]

I have played the game of "ultra -minimalist ".
These days I enjoy a slightly higher level of comfort but keep a craft element in a lot of my "luxury kit" - ie I have a hand carved Spork not a titanium one (and use recycled wood so as not to deplete on site supplies) and my chair is hand crafted from hazel leather and para cord.
I get to play with lots of flash kit as my job is reviewing gear for magazines but I also make my own - billies from coffee cans, blanket coats, leather pouches and belts etc.
I can build my own shelters, beds etc from what is found in the woods but find that it is detremental to the environment a lot of the time - so I dont do it much. I can light fires with friction, but prefer the simplicity of flint and steel.
I can spend all my time practicing hard core skills, but prefer to spend some of my time absorbing the calm of the woods.
At different times I concentrate on different aspects of "Bushcraft" skills - yes I am kit obsessed, but that is my job! I try to get away from that somewhat when "bushcrafting"
I dont do "minimalist" if I want to spend a lot of time looking at plants/chatting with mates/chillin' as I would have to spend more time providing for my basic comforts.
Tonight I will be sleeping in a hammock between two trees with no more kit than I need to stay warm and dry as I will be home for breakfast...sleeping kit (as I dont have time to build a shelter from scratch) a torch and my clothing is all I am taking...for the Moot I will need a pantechnican to carry my gear!
It is all "horses for courses" - but getting out there is the main event however you do it!



IMHO

 

[Sniper]

I take more kit than some and less than others, if going to a meet I take loads of gear but when I am out on my own I take very little. I don't go out to test my skills I go out to enjoy my time away from the goggle box, away from the computer, and away from the phone and maybe a little time without earache from SWMBO. Does that make me any less of a "Bushcrafter" than you? I really don't think the amount of kit I take demonstrates my abilities, do you really think it does in some way? I certainly hope not for your sake, cos if it does then you are way off in your thinking, not a dig at you mate just an observation. Remember books and covers don't always match, knowing skills and the ability to use them when wanted or required does'nt mean we have to use them. A 30 mph road sign does'nt mean we must drive at that speed we can chose to drive slower if conditions dictate, same goes for bushcraft, just cos we know how, and can do it, does not mean we must do it everytime out. What I do and what I take with me when I go out is my business and no one elses, what other folks do is their business, not mine. As I say I'm not having a dig at anybody, just presenting my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Draven]

I keep starting to reply and then stopping, so I'll just go on and do it

When I carry more kit, I'm more uncomfortable - why? Because then I have to do the whole big backpack nonsense, rummage around for things and lug it all around on my dodgy back. I'm still young enough that I'm perfectly happy and comfortable (more so than having a bag of bricks on my back, at least) spending the extra time looking for dead wood for a fire, and the sense of satisfaction at starting it with a firesteel still hasn't worn off. The only thing I really have in excess is edged stuff! A folder, a carving knife, a fixed blade general user, a leuku and an axe. About 3 1/2 lbs for those, but I barely notice them on my belt so that ain't a problem! I never bought into the bushcrafty clothing thing, I'm most often wearing jeans, a tshirt and a leather jacket. I know, jeans are horrible when wet, but I'll survive . . .

Other than the usual tarp and hammock, blades, a change of clothes (more than enough socks....), firesteel and some cotton in case natural tinder fails, I don't really feel I need much more - and the axe and carving knife are just for entertainment.

I'm not sure if that's minimalist or not, but I certainly don't consider myself minimalist. Just comfortable. I used to bring everything I could carry, and paid for it! I've learned.

As for the pig roasting, it is a social event, after all. I'd love to be round for one of those!

 

[rik_uk3]

I didn't mean literally, just that (to me) you shouldn't need so many creature comforts

Not much point in going camping if you can't have some creature comforts. You might be happy with a head torch, I'm not to me they are just for finding somewhere to pee or reading in my tent, so I take a nice big pressure lantern. You might be happy sitting on the floor, I've bad knee so take a chair, you might like listening to the woodland sounds around you as I do but I still want to listen to 'Book at bedtime' and the Radio 4 news so I take a radio. You might be happy cooking in a 500ml pot, I'm not as I like variety and volume so I take a set of pans and while cooking a pig is not vital, its a fun and social event.

I'm as happy as any other camper when I'm out, what I or they take is up to them; skill and knowledge should not be judged by the kit people use.

 

[Wilderbeast]

Sorry folks but I really have to say something here, I don't want to start a fight with anyone here but this sort of speak really annoyes me. Who's buisness is it but your own how much kit you wish to carry? You can go the minamalist route and try and do as much as you can with limited materials or if you have the cash you can buy your own nice kit and make life really easy for yourself but that is entirely YOUR decision. I love "bushcraft" (put in inverted commers because it means differen't things to different people).. it makes me feel free, like there is nothing more to life than simplicity and freedom, if someone came over to me and started saying "You're not a real Bushcrafter you've got a nice axe" or even "You're not a real Bushcrafter you haven't got a nice axe" I'd tell them to stick a hot stick where the sun don't shine and naff off.........Stop worrying about other people and their kit, loosen up and enjoy yourself...........each to their own I say and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

 

[Hoodoo]

Well, these threads have come up quite a few times over the years. Maybe it's time we get serious about it and start the Bushcraft Police Force. Anyone who doesn't conform to the proper standards should be dealt with severely. ::twak: This should apply not just to kit, but to thoughts as well.

 

[Chinkapin]

I guess on a philosophical level I lean toward NovembeRain's general thesis that most people pack too much rubbish around. On the other hand, Bushcraft (whatever that is exactly) has a big "tent" large enough to accommodate all who are interested in the woods. Also, I would like to point out that the kit you use may in some cases be dictated by the area that you are in. For instance, when I camp in the Ozark Mountains, I ALWAYS use a tent with a floor, and zip it up at night. The reason being there are Rattlesnakes, Copperheads, and if you are camping near water, Water Moccasins. All of which are deadly pit vipers. Also, they are primarily nocturnal. It will be a cold day in hell when I just put up a tarp and sleep on the ground! Also, I would love to be able to make a fire with a fire bow but I never have been around anyone to show me, so I have a firesteel in my kit. Also, I always carry a small Bic butane lighter. I'm sure that some purist would have a seizure if he saw me use it, but to me the object is to start a fire not a political debate. If I was caught in a sudden snow or rainstorm I would just want a fire and want it as quickly as possible. Something to keep in mind is that our ancestors never, ever went "camping." They were traveling, and they stopped and camped for the night. If they were on foot, they carried a very minimal kit, if on horseback, a bit more, and if in a wagon they often carried substantial (read heavy) kit. So, if you think about it, in some ways nothing has changed.

 

[Tadpole]

At the last moot I took a car, over loaded with kit. Chairs table, candle lamps, the whole nine yards. I also took a 9 year old kid who was there just to mess about with her friends and a wife that has never been camping. So Yes I took more kit than was needed. Needed for me, at least. I slept in my hammock lit my fire with flint and steel, cooked on a wood fire (I had to carry that as well, I was not sure that there would be any wood left, with a couple hundred others all a foraging or if it would be dry) issuing just a Billy and a wok.
Look around at the meets and you’ll see plenty of families, kids, wives and occasional friends. Few of whom are really the ‘bushcrafter’ types; mostly they are there because someone in their familial group are into the bush craft life style. At the moot my personal kit fitted into a 60lt rucksack, my families kit fitted into a 370lt family car. Judging people as to whether they are, and whether it conforms to ‘your’ idea of ‘bushcraft’ by what you see at meets and social camps is unfair, and inaccurate. Take a ‘bimble up a mountain with them, just two people, and then comeback and say who is the real bushcrafter.

Wayland for example, take half a hundredweight of camera gear with him (to take the fantastic pictures he takes), then unless he has a pet donkey, the chances of him taking all that you are accusing [him] of carrying and the kitchen sink, are pretty slim.
Same with John Fenna, If he was not such a skilled ‘bushcrafter’ he’d not have room for anything, let along his food and fancy dress.
Me, I’m ok I’m not a bushcrafter, so I don’t have to conform to other peoples ideals, I can carry everything including a washing up bowl (sinks too big for my rucksack). (ok so I lied I don’t take a washing up bowl, I just lick the plate clean)

 

[Cap'n Badger]

Different kit fer different situ's...........Just out on an overnighter....minimal kit.........Moots, Camper van fer the missus + everything else.....
Each t' thier own.....point is t' enjoy what yer doin'....hang those that judge.

 

[Tadpole]

Different kit fer different situ's...........Just out on an overnighter....minimal kit.........Moots, Camper van fer the missus + everything else.....
Each t' thier own.....point is t' enjoy what yer doin'....hang those that judge.

and there I was a thinking your campervan looked lower down on the suspention when you left the moot than when it arrived. I put it down to the booty, plunder, and raffle prizes. :swordfigh

 

[Cap'n Badger]

lol....yeah, that knife needed a trailer o' it's own....

 

[Klenchblaize]

I've seen alsorts sofar, Tents, huge teepees (sometimes including a woodburner and large chimney) I've seen people arrive at meets towing a cart full of all manner of stuff, lanterns etc. And I know it's a favourite but the sheer effort involved in having a spit - roast pig and the way meets seem to revolve around it is phenominal not to mention rediculous No offence to those involved, and understandable at bigger meets but wouldn't your time be better spent doing what you're there to do rather than obsessing over a bl@@dy pig!? Just an observation

Sounds like Glastonbury without the music!

Cheers

K

 

[Cap'n Badger]

Oh there's music an' all!...

 

[Nelis]

Hi,

As beeing one of the people who could be considered to take to much kit, even though the extra kit I bring often just sits in the car. I would just like to point out there are some reasons which for me I find valid, as I'm sure other people have their own reasons. They don't mean somebody isn't a proper bushcrafter, as bushcraft is a term so general it can be interpreted in a lot of ways.


1. The environment / permission:

Here in the netherlands woods are scares, and places where you may camp in the wild are almost none existent. Using the natural materials for everything you do, would eventually ruin these places. Chopping down a small tree for shelter takes about 5 minutes, but after so many camps there wouldn't be trees anymore for years. So I bring a tarp and hammock to avoid having to build it all from the materials available. This does not mean I don't have the skill to build one.

2. Time:

When I go into the woods I try to learn and teach myself a wide range off skils in a limited amount of time. If I would have to build a shelter, make firebow to light my fire, make a spoon to eat with, etc... There wouldn't be time to learn anything else as I mostly go out for weekends. So I take kit to speed up the things I know I can already do, this way this gives me more time to learn new things. And yes although I haven't done so yet I can see myself taking a folding chair to a bushcraft meeting. Bush meetings are always quite differend from going out on your own, because if you are going to take part in workshops there is going to be a lot of sitting and standing around, wich you wouldn't normally do. Also because there is workshops, there is even les time to make/improvise the things you normally would.

3. Try out:

When going to meetings where the car is parked close by for me that is a nice possibilIity to try out new things, If I get some new basic equipment like a new sleeping bag, I would still bring the old one the first time I would go out and use it, because I don't know how the new one will perform. For instance the last meeting I indeed wanted to try out a new sleeping bag and my first home made underblanket. As I had no Idea if they would be any good I had my sleeping pad and old slaaping bag in the car just in case. By the way eventually my extra kit (sleeping bag) were used by people wo didn't take to much kit :-}


4. Law

Last but certainly not least, in most places you are not allowed to make an open fire, and therefore I always bring a trangia cooking set. Allthough this takes the most space, and together with the fuel it probably is the haviest thing in pack next to the sleeping bag, I find it essential for beeing able to cook up a nice meal. and have a cup of tea next to it, when an open fire is prohibited.

So basically all these things come down to the same point. The extra kit is used when going outdoor to make it possible to pay attention to other activity's. And lets not forget that there are also a lot of people out there who aren't as much interested in bushcraft itself, but just use some of the bushcraft skills to pursue an other hobby like hiking or canoeing. Off course these people are interested in particular skills and not so much building shelter, carving spoons, etc.

Well just my thoughts on the matter, as for my advice to the original thread starter,

Ask yourself why you are bothered by the way other people go about their hobby for wich they use the same name as you use for your hobby...... It might lead to some surprising insights.

 

[wistuart]

Noob here. When I first stumbled upon this fantastic forum I found myself wondering where the line was drawn between bushcraft and wild camping. I almost posted asking the question but it didn't take much contemplation to realise that all that would probably achieve was disputes and snobish reactions.

At the end of the day, it's just a label that can cover a very wide range of people. My boy plays football for the school 'B' team. He will almost certainly never play in the premier league but he's still entitled to say he plays football.

To me the only attributes that should be mandatory in everyone claiming to be bushcrafters are a genuine love for the outdoors and a passion for having as small an impact on that environment as possible. So, purely IMVHO a small tent/tarp is often more bushcrafty than constructing a palatial lean-to shelter from natural materials yet I can see why some people might disagree with that.

 

[John Fenna]

To me the only attributes that should be mandatory in everyone claiming to be bushcrafters are a genuine love for the outdoors and a passion for having as small an impact on that environment as possible. So, purely IMVHO a small tent/tarp is often more bushcrafty than constructing a palatial lean-to shelter from natural materials yet I can see why some people might disagree with that.

Takes a "Noob" to precis what I was trying to say!
Good on you wistuart (is that short for "Wise Stuart"?)

The difference between Bushcrafting and wild camping is that bushcrafters use a wooden Spork - not a titanium one! - unless they want to use a titanium one not a wooden one.
Clear now?

 

[sapper1]

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH.
Not more sporks.