Calling all Bearclaw Field Knife owners.

[Marts]

Has anyone actually hammerd on the pommel to drive the tip deep into wood as Mr Kochasky suggests? I bet no one has actually stood on the blade, once hammerd in that is, to see if it breaks

Oh yes they have.

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=5904&page=1&pp=10

Jack, Rich and others did a test a while back.
The video is:

hammering

Standing

 

[Stuart]

its very important to note that those videos are NOT of the bearclaw field knife!

the knife in the video is a IJ Lapp puukko

Every new product has to be tested to the point of failure to determine where its weaknesses lay. It's called destruction testing and is industry standard no matter what you are manufacturing. (Why do we have crash tests for cars??)

Every so often the test needs to be repeated with one product selected at random from stock to ensure that the quality control is doing its job. Knife makers routinely snap one of there blades in a vise to check the grain structure.

In this video we were attempting to test the suitablity of the knife for bushcraft after mainy people had aired the view that a stick tang was not strong enough for bushcraft. (please see the following thread)

As there is no industry standard test for bushcraft we found the next best thing, a description in the book 'Northern Bushcraft' By Mors Kochanski which says:

"As a test of strength, a good knife should not break when driven 4cm into a standing tree at right angles to the grain, and the handle bears your weight as you stand on it."

If you are manufacturing or reviewing a product which people may later come to depend on it is your responsiblity to ensure that it will not fail them even when put to unreasonable use.

As for the damage to the tree in the video, we specifically chose a tree in Dorset that was about to be cut down with a chainsaw for coppicing.

The video proved as best we could that it was unreasonable to argue that a well made stick tang knife could not be suitable for bushcraft.

If such tests were not undertaken then manufacturers would not know what problems needed to be resolved with their products and quality could not be ensured to the customer.

I am not aware of this test being carried out with the Bearclaw knife, however having seen and held the bearclaw knife I can confirm that feels quite robust and would probably do well in this test

 

[falcon]

Do we know whether ANY of the "bushcraft" knives in popular use have had this done to them ?? I have a Bison, F1(a beast), Lapplander and Pukko and have never seen any of the makers refer to this as a test which has been accomplished on their knife. Like others I have read Mors' comments on it, which are intriguing, but have never felt the need to ask for proof of it on my knives, nor will I in the future. Neither am I sure what failure rate out of a batch of knives it would be reasonable to insist upon nor % submitted for sample testing. I would be amazed if I broke one in day to day use but, there again, there's always a first time.

 

[Viking]

Do we know whether ANY of the "bushcraft" knives in popular use have had this done to them ?? I have a Bison, F1(a beast), Lapplander and Pukko and have never seen any of the makers refer to this as a test which has been accomplished on their knife. Like others I have read Mors' comments on it, which are intriguing, but have never felt the need to ask for proof of it on my knives, nor will I in the future. Neither am I sure what failure rate out of a batch of knives it would be reasonable to insist upon nor % submitted for sample testing. I would be amazed if I broke one in day to day use but, there again, there's always a first time.

They have hammered in severeal Fällkniven F1 in a tree then used the knives as stairs and walked on them. Only to prove that the knife will hold.

 

[bambodoggy]

This all sounds very odd to me I've had my MoD knife nearly 4 inches into a pine log to split it but I wouldn't do this with my packpal (not that I don't think it'd cope but I don't feel a need to trash it to prove anything....)

Besides I can do the same with a screw driver and that doesn't make it a good knife!!!

Also....in those vids and the other thread Jack says:

Yes we did, just knocked the knive from side to side and worked it back of the hazel and Roving Rich rehandled it!

So doesn't that count as a fail then if it had to be rehandled?

I've played with the antler version of the BFK and am fairly sure it could stand up to this should you be daft enough to try it!

Bam.

 

[Stuart]

Do we know whether ANY of the "bushcraft" knives in popular use have had this done to them ?? I have a Bison, F1(a beast), Lapplander and Pukko and have never seen any of the makers refer to this as a test which has been accomplished on their knife. Like others I have read Mors' comments on it, which are intriguing, but have never felt the need to ask for proof of it on my knives, nor will I in the future. Neither am I sure what failure rate out of a batch of knives it would be reasonable to insist upon nor % submitted for sample testing. I would be amazed if I broke one in day to day use but, there again, there's always a first time.

I have seen this test carried out on a Fällkniven F1, I seem to recall someone informing me that the ability to withstand this test was a requirement for the Swedish military survival knives (I could be wrong here though)

I believe the original Bison knife was a design based on the requirements stated by Mors Kochanski and as such was designed to pass this test (Roger being at one time a student of Mors)

the origin of the test is a (swedish?) technique for felling trees up to 9" diameter using just a knife by battoning it point first into the trunk and then repeating the process around the trunk until the tree was felled.

I would not suggest that people try this with their knives, I think of the test more as a manufacturers destruction test, the failer percentage rate if this was the aim should be 0% (as it is with the Fällkniven F1)

Also....in those vids and the other thread Jack says:


"Originally Posted by Jack
Yes we did, just knocked the knive from side to side and worked it back of the hazel and Roving Rich rehandled it!".

Bambodoggy is right and brings up a good point, the handle on the lapp puukko sustained a crack along its length during the test, so did it fail the test? I would say in the strictest sense it did, at the time however the point of the test was to prove that a stick tang had more than enough inherent strength against an argument which said "stick tangs will snap because there is not enough steel" the blade and tang of the knife we tested suffered no effects what so ever.

the interesting point which Bam raises is, when is the knife as a whole considered to have failed the test? if it is damaged in any way, if it is damaged but usable, or if it is destroyed? this of course depends on your requirements

Besides I can do the same with a screw driver and that doesn't make it a good knife!!!

the test is not designed to show that the knife is good, the idea is to start with a knife proven to be good and test whether a good knife is also a strong enough knife.

 

[bambodoggy]

I would not suggest that people try this with their knives, I think of the test more as a manufacturers destruction test, the failer percentage rate if this was the aim should be 0% (as it is with the Fällkniven F1).

I agree 100% Stuart, this sort of testing is definately best left to the manufacturers, firstly you wouldn't drive your new car into a wall at 30mph to test for yourself if the crumple zone worked and secondly I'm certain that abusing a knife in this way would invalidate the warranty...I don't make knives and am not a manufacturer but if you brought a knife back to me and told me what you did then I'd say you were a wally and that the warranty doesn't cover wallies

If you need to fell trees then use fire and clay to do it, that way you won't knacker your knife (pack the clay (or mud) in a ring around the tree at about knee height and then light a fire at the bottom of the tree - the tree burns through and then falls and the clay stops the fire burning right up the tree). If you try this then do be very careful as you can't tell which way the tree will go...it's a survival technique and not to be used in your back garden to fell your little apple tree! If you need a large trunk for strength then why not use several smaller, say 2" trunks, and bind them together.
If you need to climb the tree (would one step really be that useful), then use your knife to carve yourself a ladder.... lol

In short there's plenty of other ways to do things without trashing your knife or invalidating the warranty.... I think it's a case of brains over brute force here

Just my opinion but I'm leaving the testing of my knives to the maker

Cheers,

Bam.