I have to disagree. Most survivalists (of the type you're referring to) Don't fear these things; they seem to be eagerly anticipating them.
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I have to disagree. Most survivalists (of the type you're referring to) Don't fear these things; they seem to be eagerly anticipating them.
Can't agree with that. Nothing short of pure panic can describe the massive boneheadedness of so many of the "survivalist crowd" as Y2K approached.
I'm in this for two reasons.
One, is to be as comfy as I can until someone coms and gets me when it all goes bad. Crashed my aircraft in or whatever. I like my sundowners with a G&T with lemon too much to be into spoon carving and basket weaving for however many months and years.
Two, is because I like to get back to nature for a few nights at a time and feel the wind and rain on my face as I watch the wildlife do as it has done for the last thousands of years, and to appreciate how my body deals with the physical aspects of a few days or a week outdoors.
Different things for different people. No one should be viewed lessor or greater because on one particular leaning. We can all share the skills and tips we need for our own particular style of buchcraft-fu
One, is to be as comfy as I can until someone coms and gets me when it all goes bad. Crashed my aircraft in or whatever. I like my sundowners with a G&T with lemon too much to be into spoon carving and basket weaving for however many months and years.
Two, is because I like to get back to nature for a few nights at a time and feel the wind and rain on my face as I watch the wildlife do as it has done for the last thousands of years, and to appreciate how my body deals with the physical aspects of a few days or a week outdoors.
Different things for different people. No one should be viewed lessor or greater because on one particular leaning. We can all share the skills and tips we need for our own particular style of buchcraft-fu
Possibly. But the Y2K thing was only a passing fad by crowd of amateurs. The real survivalists are still out there planning and wishing.
"Travel has also changed the nature of bushcraft. I recently read a thread on here about a Wilderness Cabin, which claimed that the location was only accessible by float plane. I dispute that claim, and reckon that quite a few people on this forum could get there the old-fashioned way, on foot or by canoe, and while it may take rather longer, it would be a much more interesting journey than by air. It is of course only a guess, but there's a good chance that around a century or so ago a trapper set up his camp not far from where that cabin stands now, without needing a float plane to get there."
The cabin is on a lake? So a canoe would be no good. There is a good chance a century ago a trapper would have a couple of pack animals with him to haul his gear. Float plane = modern pack mule/horse, methodology is the same, equipment used has moved on thats all. The old trappers would often have carried less items of kit than a modern 'bushcrafter' (who are often over equipped) but it was perhaps more crudely made and heavier.
The cabin is on a lake? So a canoe would be no good. There is a good chance a century ago a trapper would have a couple of pack animals with him to haul his gear. Float plane = modern pack mule/horse, methodology is the same, equipment used has moved on thats all. The old trappers would often have carried less items of kit than a modern 'bushcrafter' (who are often over equipped) but it was perhaps more crudely made and heavier.
You must be referring to the elite secret squirrel Mel Tappanites. I think they are on youtube... But wait, there's more!
@ rik_uk3
I pick up on your point about the modern bushcrafters being over equipped, but the old trapper also had anywhere up to 150 steel spring traps of size 2 1/2 or larger which we don't carry. The book I mentioned is well worth having a look at for anyone interested in bushcraft, especially the parts titled "Campaign Life In The Wilderness" and "A Trappers Miscellany". It's available as an e-book via Project Gutenberg (www.gutenberg.org) and I believe Fouteenacre ( no connection apart from being a past customer) sell a paper copy.
As to the point about canoes, the canoe was, and sometimes still is, the most effective means of transport in the wilds of North America. Lakes usually have rivers flowing from or through them, and rivers are often the best means of travel, as travelling overland with pack animals can be very slow in boggy muskeg terrain, particularly if the animals are heavily laden.
My dad lived and worked in Canada in the 1930's, some of the time in logging camps, so I heard a lot about his time there (probably what started my interest in bushcraft), and the ways of doing things in the wilds of Canada.
Alan
I pick up on your point about the modern bushcrafters being over equipped, but the old trapper also had anywhere up to 150 steel spring traps of size 2 1/2 or larger which we don't carry. The book I mentioned is well worth having a look at for anyone interested in bushcraft, especially the parts titled "Campaign Life In The Wilderness" and "A Trappers Miscellany". It's available as an e-book via Project Gutenberg (www.gutenberg.org) and I believe Fouteenacre ( no connection apart from being a past customer) sell a paper copy.
As to the point about canoes, the canoe was, and sometimes still is, the most effective means of transport in the wilds of North America. Lakes usually have rivers flowing from or through them, and rivers are often the best means of travel, as travelling overland with pack animals can be very slow in boggy muskeg terrain, particularly if the animals are heavily laden.
My dad lived and worked in Canada in the 1930's, some of the time in logging camps, so I heard a lot about his time there (probably what started my interest in bushcraft), and the ways of doing things in the wilds of Canada.
Alan
In three hundred years time (if we last that long), there will be a knowledgeable and enthusiastic presenter/practitioner of bushcraft, gracing our holographic home entertainment systems at 7pm weeknights. He or she will be mesmerising audiences with tales of how our ancestors had to forage for two-for-one offers in the local supermarket. We will be dazzled by the almost lost skills required to make a 3 star michelin grade meal from sainsburys basics tinned potatoes and some freeze dried mince. The really skilled indigenous knew to go to aldi or lidl for their wares, while the less experienced ran out of money and had to survive on pot noodles from the "out of sell by" discount bin. Older generations passed down their skills via youtube "unboxing" videos. I could have more fun with this but haven't the time.
For me, first nations peoples of which ever continent were not practising bushcraft. They were simply doing what we are doing now; making a living with the resources and skills at their disposal. I wonder how the fur traders and first nations would have conducted their business with access to the kind of advancements that we all enjoy today. Food for thought.
I don't consider myself a bushcrafter and certainly not a survivalist but I find the concept of "bushcraft" highly nostalgic. Using skills that we no longer use day to day is the enjoyable part of it. The nostalgia for me is similar to that of steam locomotives. Evocative of an age one longs to be a part of, and at a practical level can relive as a hobby.
For me, first nations peoples of which ever continent were not practising bushcraft. They were simply doing what we are doing now; making a living with the resources and skills at their disposal. I wonder how the fur traders and first nations would have conducted their business with access to the kind of advancements that we all enjoy today. Food for thought.
I don't consider myself a bushcrafter and certainly not a survivalist but I find the concept of "bushcraft" highly nostalgic. Using skills that we no longer use day to day is the enjoyable part of it. The nostalgia for me is similar to that of steam locomotives. Evocative of an age one longs to be a part of, and at a practical level can relive as a hobby.
Hopefully the following link will not incur the wrath of the mods
If you want to know the difference between Bear and Ray then this it it!
I actually think that both men are excellent advocates for all things outdoors and I am not trying to score points.
If you want to know the difference between Bear and Ray then this it it!
I actually think that both men are excellent advocates for all things outdoors and I am not trying to score points.
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Very well put. I too, believe that we will descend back into a more ecological based reality where easy access to vast amounts of cheap energy is a thing of the past. We will lose a lot of our current knowledge and future archeologists will wonder in awe at how "civilisation" could have survived at the current time.
Also, I believe that we need to relearn some of these older skills that will be transferrable into a low technological world with limited energy supplies. That is one of the many draws that I have for the Bushcraft skills.
survival for me is, well, surviving outdoors... bushcraft, for me, is enjoying outdoors! I think the boundary between the two disappears when you enjoy surviving outdoors- take the '5 items' challenge for example!
Perhaps we could say that survival skills are to 'bushcraft', what first aid skills are to medicine...
Survival and first aid skills are critically important on the (hopefully) rare occasions that they are needed by the average individual. They can be trained for, yet it is individual performance in the crucial moments that may determine success or failure. Psychology is an enormous factor in determining the effectiveness the 'performance', regardless of how much training in the fundamentals an individual has received. Also, of course, the circumstances of an emergency situation requiring first aid or survival skills, can be made up so many previously unimagined factors, that only a general formula can be taught...this is perhaps not the domain of specialists. Bushcraft and medicine, on the other hand could be argued to be a far greater repository of practice, skill, tradition and knowledge, within which there is room for many in-depth specialisms from many directions. I think there is a lot more to it than this, but just my quick tuppence worth
Survival and first aid skills are critically important on the (hopefully) rare occasions that they are needed by the average individual. They can be trained for, yet it is individual performance in the crucial moments that may determine success or failure. Psychology is an enormous factor in determining the effectiveness the 'performance', regardless of how much training in the fundamentals an individual has received. Also, of course, the circumstances of an emergency situation requiring first aid or survival skills, can be made up so many previously unimagined factors, that only a general formula can be taught...this is perhaps not the domain of specialists. Bushcraft and medicine, on the other hand could be argued to be a far greater repository of practice, skill, tradition and knowledge, within which there is room for many in-depth specialisms from many directions. I think there is a lot more to it than this, but just my quick tuppence worth
i would say bush craft looks to the past, survival looks to the feuture.
they both kind of co-exist together you cant learn one without touching on the other. skills from bushcraft can and do get used in survival and vice versa.
they both kind of co-exist together you cant learn one without touching on the other. skills from bushcraft can and do get used in survival and vice versa.
Lisa, this is very well put. I would like to use your analogy for some of my courses. Bushcraft is more than survival skills. It is a philosophy that encompasses all of the survival skills but embraces much more than the sum of a few skills. Both a first aider and a doctor can provide basic medical care and the outcome would probably be similar. But the doctor will have a much more profound understanding of the skills of first aid.
hummm. a medical bushcrafter....now there is a thought......
Survival is about surviving, bushcraft is about thriving
Survivalists learn how to stay alive until they can be rescued, bushcrafters learn how to be self-sufficient enough to not need rescuing.
Survivalists learn how to stay alive until they can be rescued, bushcrafters learn how to be self-sufficient enough to not need rescuing.
May I extend the question to include what is known as living history or even experimental archaeology? Ray Mears and his wild food book and programmes illustrated this in attempting to see what Mesolothic people could have lived on. Playing with both I see many crossovers and survivalism has a place in the continuum as well.
I have friends who could make you a suite of flint implements and others who could bake you solid useful clay pots from local materials and a wife to supply you string from natural cordage.
I have friends who could make you a suite of flint implements and others who could bake you solid useful clay pots from local materials and a wife to supply you string from natural cordage.
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