Bushcraft v.s. Survival

[John Fenna]

I lean heavily towards the "craft" side of things - leather craft, basket crafting, wood crafting, clay crafting, wine craft etc - to make my time enjoyable in the "bush" or even "tree" using as much as I can of items I find in the wilds/bush- ergo - I am a bush crafter.
I have managed to stay alive fir over 50 years - despite doing some risky things - ergo - I am a "Survivor" having practiced "survival" sucessfully over this period. My certification actually describes me as a "Survival instructor"....
In a happy anticipation of a long life I lay down skills and equipment to keep me fed, watered and clothed even if my financial position deteriorates (likely), if there are power outrages etc in my region (likely from past experience) or if the world scene goes pearshaped even more than it is doing (likely if you believe the Daily Mail etc) - ergo I am a "survivalist" or "Prepper"...
Overall I am just a middle aged bloke who does not like to rely on "The State", charity, others, etc for my comfort and finds peace and quiet in the more natural surroundings of trees, mountains, lakes and rivers as far from "civilisation" as possible....
As a label I prefer "bushcrafter" or "Luddite"... or even "human"

 

[yerbache]

I think RM summed it up pretty well with the title and subtitle of his first book: "The Survival Handbook: A guide to Woodcraft and Woodlore" I can't help but suspect "The survival handbook" part of the title was a choice of his publishers, but the sub-title pretty much sums up the philosophy for me....

 

[Wild Thing]

Well said John

I'm with you.

 

[rik_uk3]

Actually, aren't we talking about three separate things here?

1. bushcrafting - having fun in the woods
2. Survival - surviving a disaster until rescued, or until reaching civilisation.
3- survivalist - preparing for teotwawki.

They all share a lot of core skills, shelter building, fire lighting, hunting, camp craft, navigation, improvisation, cooking, first aid etc etc.

TEOTWAWKI is just one of life's possible outcomes.

 

[Ex Member - Sidney Bounty]

Survival and Bushcraft are two different things for me...
survival-how to keep your bottom alive long enough to be found or get out...
bushcraft-how to thrive comfortably in any environment for extended periods of time...

 

[Bluefrog]

I agree with an article i read in trail magazine about Ben McNutt, he said that bushcraft is in danger of loosing its actual meaning(along those words).
I like bushcraft as it enhances all of the outdoor pursuits i do, whether its canoeing, rock climbing, hiking or just camping. Some of the skills I've learnt would help to a great extent in a survival situation, like foraging and fire lighting. For me it adds comfort and makes me feel closer to nature (you can call me a hippie if you want, i love nature. But would you call Simon King a hippie for also loving nature?).
Bushcraft for me is really an umbrella term, it can be used widely in the outdoors. it can add to an outdoor sustainable lifestyle; or just make a hike more pleasant, foraging for food along the way.
We need to look at what bushcraft is and what survival is. A survivalist will no that survival is most part mental, keeping a positive head and not giving up when it gets tough. I fail to understand how Bear is a 'survivalist' as he knows hes going to get rescued within a couple of days; all he would have to do is sit there, keep warm and drink water. I feel both bushcraft and survival are loosing there true origins.

 

[yerbache]

I fail to understand how Bear is a 'survivalist' as he knows hes going to get rescued within a couple of days, all he would have to do is sit there keep warm and drink water. I feel both bushcraft and survival are loosing there true origins.

He has to survive as long as it takes the film crew to turn off the cameras so they can all hop in the Land Rover and have a merry jaunt back to the hotel....

 

[leahcim]

Bear is a Survivalist; ray is a Bushcrafter, Tom Brown is a Primitive living skills, Less is an endurer or roughing it. Bear is trying to get out the safest way possible using skills that people used for years, but he is just trying to survive for the moment. Ray walks into the woods and uses European skills as a craftsman to make a stay comfortable. Less is merely insanely roughing it, and now his new show just being a drug addict looking for the newest oldest primitive drug. Tom Brown Jr is the master and is living and living well in the woods like native Americans and stone age people did for centuries. If you really want to learn, woods living, then look up Tom Brown jr, John McPherson, Larry Dean Oslen. these guys are the real deal. No bull with them. Ray would be the next guy to listen too. Bear on the other hand is super trained to do dumb things that would get anyone else killed. Cody and Dave of Daul Survival is a great mix of minds, and i what you are talking about the divison of methods and thinking processes being used. One is a primtive arts guy and the other miltary trained Surivist, even though Iprefer Cody's thinking, dave is a bad bottom for sure.

 

[BillyBlade]

Bear Grylls - Survivalist

Ray Mears - Bushcrafter.

The real world difference? Real life bad situation, and they both find themselves in a real deal out in the woods scenario.

Bear would break his leg 5th day in doing something dumb but spectacular, and die.

Ray would be found a year later 2 stones heavier than before he went in.

Bear is great entertainment, and I respect hugely the mans accomplishments and I love watching his TV show, but there it is.

My tuppence anyways!

 

[spandit]

Bear Grylls is to bushcraft/survival as Jeremy Clarkson is to serious motoring journalism

Still watch them both!

 

[Native Nathan]

This is an easy question for me to answer.

Bushcraft is when we practice Survival Skills

Survival is when we do it for real, (usually when you do not have a choice in the matter)

The main Difference is an easy one: When out Practicing the Art of Bushcraft you can come home safely any time you want.
When surviving you dream of coming home safely, unfortunately some do not achieve this dream.

 

[blackfeather]

I totally agree !!!
I had a situation arise
about 17 years ago november 5th!!
i had been chopping down a dead standing birch tree for a centre pole for my kids bonfire. prior to that day I had always (wild camped) but on the day bushcraft type activity turned into a real survival situation...
the tree fell and down a banking it rolled leaving just the freshly cut end protruding out of a small beck.
the banking was really slippery and wet
but after it I went!!! mistake number one!!!
realiseing that it had got wedged somehow I tried to kick it loose so as to get a grip on it
failing to get hodl of it for fear of slipping and getting wet. i straggled the log and decided to plant the axe into it to use as a handle
that was mistake number 2
the axe hit the log and glancing off to the side went straight through my boot almost severing my foot in two..
blood was pumping out at an alarming rate...
and did I panic????
I think not!!!!
I had not got time to try to do a rambo and stitch up the wound
and also realised that if I had tried to walk due to the pulse in the heel of my foot I would have lost more blood faster.
I knew I had to get help but I was about half a mile from the nearest road...
and to get to the road and a nearby garage I had to cross a railway mainline up a hill through a cemetary and across the road...
I made this journey on my backside. backwards with my leg held in the air to try to slow the blood loss
my hands were raw and cut to bits. but I reached the road and tried to flag down cars but no one stopped...
I croosed that road on my a**e with cars swerving around me no one but no one stopped to help and there was a trail of blood as wide as the thames river behind me!!!
when I got to the garage..
a man came running out the service area picked me up like a sack of spuds and put me in his car.... straight to a&e he stayed with me for a while but I was delirious through blood loss the next thing I know it was the day after!!! and I had been in surgery!!! having sliced through 3 toes and the tendons...
I asked about the guy who had brought me in>>> he had been an army medical officer home on leave... his name I only remember as being Michael.
my onw actions had helped slow the bleeding but he had saved my life
had I tried to walk home I would not be writing this now!!!
I know it sounds pityful stuff but I do believe in strange things like miracles that day was something unreal!!!
I dont even remember the guys face just the strength and calm...
he never spoke or if he did I dont remember hearing him....
my kids made up a little poem based on the lizzie borden story (our dad took an axe.
and gave atree 40 whacks!!!
when he saw what he had done.
he gave his foot number 41)
the point is no matter where you are or how comfy you feel survival situations can happen...
having the knowledge to deal with them is the most vital part anything above that beit spoon carving or making a poachers whistle is just an added bonus!!!
bushcraft skills and survival skills seem worlds apart but there are times when they go hand in hand....

I think there is a large amount of misinterpretation of what Bushcraft is, a better way of putting the question is what's the difference between wilderness survival skills and wilderness living skills?

Both entities require you to address the principles of survival. There is a crossover on the skill sets. Generally the difference is to do with duration and situation.

Nobody knowingly enters into a true survival situation, but a bushcraft situation can escalate into a survival situation through injury, weather change or any unforeseen event. This normally involves imminent threat to life.

Short term wilderness survival becomes in the long term Wilderness Living, because it ceases to be all about just getting out of there and becomes more of a case of now making the most of things, establishing a routine, addressing water / food requirements and making implements that will make life easier. The longer the duration and the further away from the initial event that you move the more you practice living skills on top of the basic survival skills.

Don't get me wrong when I say basic survival skills, they are essentials. Survival and bushcraft both revolve around levels of knowledge and ingenuity.

Survival has one thing that makes a difference in reality and it doesn't always matter whether you have training or not, invariably the person that can control themselves, conquer their fear and think clearly, calmly and quickly will have a better chance of surviving.

Stuart wrote an article a while ago titled "Survival is all about a good cup of tea", a lot of studies that have been carried out have shown that people who take a step back and take a little time to gather their thoughts and establish a plan of action tend to be the ones that survive short term life threatening situations.

Addressing the priorities of protection, location, water and food will keep you alive, but as soon as possible establish a routine. The longer the routine is established the more skill sets can be included because you will have already established, some form of cutting implement, shelter (which will require maintenance / improvement periodically), casualties will have been addressed, fire should be running more or less continuously for cooking and sterilisation of water, a method of fire management will be established. Ground markers that can be seen from the air and do not require manning should be established, water parties and parties for gathering wood should be established. Once these things have been addressed hunting, gathering and trapping starts.

At this point you cease to just survive as you start to manufacture tools because you have time in the routine to do so, the structure that this provides works like a mental comfort blanket.

Are you now surviving or living?

Is the imminent threat to life over?

Bushcraft / Wilderness Living skills encompass a vast array of skills including those practised in survival, are they the same thing as entities? No they're not, but they are very similar beasties and someone who has gone into great depth on Survival skills will be equally adept in Bushcraft, at the same time someone who has practised the main, basic principles included in both from a bushcraft background will equally be able to survive.

 

[Laurentius]

I am going to get all philosophical and say that survival is what everybody does while they are still on planet earth. Life has to be about more than mere survival at any level. I am sure I could survive on a diet of brown rice, but to wash it down with a decent wine now and then would add something more

 

[2trapper]

I don't like consider so deeply the differences between the survivalist and the bushcrafter.

I'm too fond of the totally definitive BE PREPARED of Sir Baden Powell

 

[Callum]

Hi All

I think the key thing here is that Bushcraft is a subculture. There is a common ideology which goes way beyond just 'what do i need to do to survive'

e.g. when i go sea kayaking i pack a VHF radio, a satellight personal distress beacon, strobe light, flares etc- the point is that if it all goes t*ts up I just want to get found asap and therefore survive. There are no Ray Mears signature knives and wood fuel stoves.

Bushcraft has evolved into a completely different subject, it explores a combination of ancient and modern methods of living in harmony with a natural environment and is therefore much more complicated and diverse.

 

[Neumo]

Bushcraft has evolved into a completely different subject, it explores a combination of ancient and modern methods of living in harmony with a natural environment and is therefore much more complicated and diverse.

Is Survival just a subset of Bushcraft? I mean is survival knowing the basics of bushcraft i.e. shelter, fire, water, food etc.. but not going much beyoynd that. The problem with these discusions is that the third element of this, as briefly mentioned, is 'survivalist' as in Militia types, TEOTWAWKI, 'The end is nigh & they have been into reloading for a while' kind of people.

Then there is the Primative Skills Vs New kit. Some pick one or the other; the wise can use skills from both camps.

As for kit, that's the old 'I have a £10 knife & dont need a £300 one' argument. While that's true a quality blade, tent, sleeping bag etc.. gives you more confidence that it can do it's chosen role, provides you with a more enjoyable stay, makes you smile when you use said item, will probably last longer/be better built etc.. The 'inverse kit snobs' will always be around & are always good for a laugh. As with all kit it is about 'get the best you can afford after choosing wisely'. If that's a builder's tarp then good on you; if it's a silnylon 3mx3m tarp that weighs less than a pack of fags, then great.

At the end of the day we have to call what we do by some name & 'survivor' has too many bad implications for a lot of people. Bushcraft is not a bad name, as I have said before more than once.

 

[The Ratcatcher]

Having read this thread carefully, it seems to me that a lot of people seem to regard bushcraft as being an end in itsself, rather than what it used to be, a means to an end. For most of history, what is now classed as bushcraft was the normal daily routine. People didn't "do" bushcraft, they went out for some other purpose, and bushcraft was simply the means by which they lived.

The Voyageurs of North America went out to trap fur-bearing animals, or to prospect for precious metals. The Anadyr tribes followed the reindeer herds across Siberia in their seasonal migrations. The American cowboys and the Australian drovers moved their livestock across country to market, as did the Highland drovers in Scotland. All of them used bushcraft on their travels, but didn't see it as a separate activity.

Bushcraft as a leisure activity is a recent development, and is vastly different from it's origins among these nomadic groups. The most obvious difference is the amount of kit carried. The modern bushcrafter carries much less kit than his predecesors. If you read the sections about campcraft and travel in "Camp Life in the Woods and the Tricks of Trapping and Trap Making", published in 1881 as a manual for young trappers, and work out roughly how much the kit would weigh, then compare that with the weight carried today, even by vehicle equipped bushcrafters, there's a huge difference, especially if you add the weight of perhaps several dozen steel traps!

Travel has also changed the nature of bushcraft. I recently read a thread on here about a Wilderness Cabin, which claimed that the location was only accessible by float plane. I dispute that claim, and reckon that quite a few people on this forum could get there the old-fashioned way, on foot or by canoe, and while it may take rather longer, it would be a much more interesting journey than by air. It is of course only a guess, but there's a good chance that around a century or so ago a trapper set up his camp not far from where that cabin stands now, without needing a float plane to get there.

I'm not knocking the modern way of bushcraft, let's be honest, I enjoy it myself, otherwise I wouldn't be on here in the first place, but I, and I suspect a lot of other people on this site, wouldn't mind wandering off into the wilds of Canada or Siberia for a few months (If we didn't have jobs and families to worry about!) travelling by canoe or on horseback with a pack mule to carry the couple of hundredweight of kit the old-timers used.

As to the difference between bushcraft and survival. Survival is about being in the wilds with little or no kit, usually as a result of something over which you have no control, and trying to be still breathing when the rescue team arrive. Bushcraft is about being able to live in the wilds so that you can work out there in (relative) comfort.

Alan

 

[santaman2000]

Well said.

 

[BoonDoc]

As someone who emigrated here from North America, I have trained and trained with both categories of people. I find that there is an edge to the survivalist that I have not found with the bushcrafters. That edge is fear.
Survivalists fear something: the end of the world, government taking their guns, climate change...whatever. That fear feeds their need for the survival skills.

Most survivalists that I know rely far too heavily on their guns and their perceived skill with them. To quote a Microsoft middle manager "I don't need to stash food. My .50 cal sniper system will feed me with the human hordes."

I am quite happy to align myself along the lines of a bushcrafter.

 

[AuldJum]

Both terms are too subjective to have any real value now, these terms will take on new meanings in 50 years same as they had different meanings 50 years ago.

When i first started camping just after WW2, due to a difficulty in getting any gear and the fact that the older generation at that time still had these skills.

For example when i first went camping with my grandad, the gear we had was very limited, wool blanket, sheet of canvas a pot and a knife was about it. I remember setting up camp with my grandad and he without really thinking about it made some grass rope for guying the canvas.

It seemed natural to him but we called that camping, it would be called hardcore bushcraft now.