Bushcraft v.s. Survival

[santaman2000]

....and thats why, if I had to pick a label, I'll be a survivalist

I enjoy growing my own food (not bushcraft)
I enjoying preserving my own food (not bushcraft)
I enjoy making mead and hedgerow wine ( not bushcraft)
I enjoy learning about beekeeping ( not bushcraft)
I enjoy cooking over wood every day (not UK bushcraft)
I enjoy making my own soap ( not bushcraft)
....shall I go on?

I enjoy so many things that are real, practical, accesible and a viable UK lifestyle.

They are all part of the reality (not the fantasy) of survival - but not of bushcraft.

I have learned a great deal fro the bushcrat community - but why the snobbery exists escapes me

Maybe I'm nitpicking a bit but I'm not sure "survivalist" is quite the right term either Red. I suppose that's because the currently the word conjure images of someone with an expectation of using those skills to "survive" some sort of societal collapse, rather than someone who simply enjoys the lifestyle.

I would probably think of you (or someone such as you describe yourself to be) as a "homesteader" over here or perhaps a "crofter" over on your side of the pond. But as I said, I'm probably just hung up on semantics.

 

[rik_uk3]

Bearded Bugs wrote
"Interesting thoughts. What about people that undeniably are masters of bushcraft? Like the Hadza for example, to say they don't have a kinship with their surroundings is perplexing to me."

I'd not say they were masters of bushcraft at all, what they do possess are the skills needed to survive in their habitat. Kinship is not the word I'd pick, perhaps a healthy respect for their surroundings is better suited.

"Originally Posted by British Red ....and thats why, if I had to pick a label, I'll be a survivalist

I enjoy growing my own food (not bushcraft)
I enjoying preserving my own food (not bushcraft)
I enjoy making mead and hedgerow wine ( not bushcraft)
I enjoy learning about bee keeping ( not bushcraft)
I enjoy cooking over wood every day (not UK bushcraft)
I enjoy making my own soap ( not bushcraft)
....shall I go on?

I enjoy so many things that are real, practical, accessible and a viable UK lifestyle.

They are all part of the reality (not the fantasy) of survival - but not of bushcraft.

I have learned a great deal from the bushcraft community - but why the snobbery exists escapes me"

I know you have in interest in 'survivalism' Red but if I had no knowledge of you and read what you wrote I'd say you were more a smallholder than a survivalist or bushcrafter, as it turns out your smallholding could prove a valuable asset in times of social and or economic unrest.

Go back a few years and BCUK was much more focused on camp craft and folk got out and practised these skills. I maybe wrong but I think less and less people actually get out camping anymore, given the size of the site you'd expect to see many write ups on a Monday morning talking of weekend trips away but very few are posted.

'Bushcraft' (silly name really) has changed and to a certain extent become such a broad/diluted topic that focus has been lost on as to why people came here in the first place and often the busiest sections here are the wanted/for sale/trade threads

I know times are hard and some can't afford weekends away but come on guys & gals, a lot of you should actually get off yer bums and get out if only for a night; dressing in your finest BC uniform for a walk in the woods/making a brew just ain't the same as spending a night out. Before people go on about 'can't afford it' ask yourself what it really costs for a night out, permission from the family, a bit of food you'd eat at home anyway and petrol or bus fare to a site should cover it.

Just my opinions here.

So folks, less talk and more action please.

 

[British Red]

You may be right Richard - I suspect thats my point - I have an interest in lots of activities - any arbitrary label probably does not cover them

Maybe I'm nitpicking a bit but I'm not sure "survivalist" is quite the right term either Red. I suppose that's because the currently the word conjure images of someone with an expectation of using those skills to "survive" some sort of societal collapse, rather than someone who simply enjoys the lifestyle

I certainly think we will need these skills again as I don't believe society can continue on a path of endless expansion and ever increasing consumption. Sadly, as a race, we can see the problem intellectually but cannot change our path. So in that respect, I fit the bill surely? I also enjoy the lifestyle? Does that mean I am both a survivalist and a small holder...or neither?

 

[santaman2000]

Probably a bit of both Red. Perhaps a pragmatist might be an apt description. And FWIW I admire and envy your lifestyle.

 

[British Red]

Thank you kind sir. I do find the whole labels thing funny really - we all make a load of different lifestyle choices every day. Its a mix and match world

I've never yet met a bunker dwelling weirdo in the survivalist community - I'm sure they exist though - same as all sorts of weirdos exist in the Bushcraft community - from "wannabe cavemen" to "Robin Hood lets pretend types" to "witchy potion makers"

Tell you what though - when I wanted long stem, heritage, winter wheat - its a US guy into "survival" who got me some. Its also a US "survival" guy who may well have cracked the "making crystal sugar at home" problem

...but it was a Bushcrafter who sent me plants I needed....and soap making equipment.

I probably am a bit of a small holder (because I like the life), a bit of a survivalist (because I fear the uture of peak oil, over population, etc.), a seasoning of bushcrafter (I love foraging and wildlife and many of the crafts).

I guess I think of myself as asurvivalist because bushcraft topics are welcomed on survival forums.....!


Here is a thought. Even Ray Mears says "its important not to lose the old skills". If aren't going to need them again, surely is isn't important at all. If we are going to need them again, then there are a whole lot more we will need as well!

 

[adventure]

Personally I Think survivalist's want to survive an end of the word as we know it, or more frequently known in terms they used **** ( **** hit the fan ) , Some stock up-to 10-20 even 30 years of food , a bushcrafter wants to know how to have an infinite amount and be self sustained, live of the wild, does not care about the end of the world ( is not preping for it I mean )

They are both ways of life and NO ONE can call the other paranoid, hippie or what ever, In the end it comes down to what you want, A survivalist with 30 years of food will outlive a bush crafter in a survival situation hands down. No debate on that as most survivalists are also farmers and can sustain themselves ( ones I know that is )

But Who would survive longer without preps? bushcaft, who would survive a plane crash and need to live, a bushcrafter.

Bushcraft = fun, enjoyment - way of life to an extent.

Survival = Way of life completely , Self preservation overrides "fun" But a lot of them find it fun,

How Do I know? I'm a survivalist myself and have years of food ready - fuel - weapons, BUT I also am a bushcrafter when the world is not ending. No one can say anything is bad. opinions are everything in this matter.

" why someone who practice bushcraft may not (survivalist assumption) be able to survive in the woods?"

Simple matter is they think you depending on natural resources, and your living in a dream, no matter how skilled you are nearly no one will survive 10 years isolation in a wood.

 

[Skaukraft]

Simple matter is they think you depending on natural resources, and your living in a dream, no matter how skilled you are nearly no one will survive 10 years isolation in a wood.

I belive you got it all wrong mate.
A survivalist is doing his best trying not to die. A "bushcrafter" is trying to live. In my opinion theres a subtle, but very important difference in those two statements.
The term "bushcraft" is pretty new to me, and there is really no good translation of the word in norwegian. The first time I ever saw the word being used was while watching a Ray Mears-episode on YT a couple of years ago. Even though the word is new I have been a bushcrafter all my life, but I have never thought of it as anything else than everyday life. I got my first knife and fishingpole when I was 6 years old.
Within 10 years I would have adapted and survived fairly good. I would probably have become some kind of a nomad, shifting habitat with the time of year and the shifting of flora and fauna.
You, on the other hand, would be carrying around 10 years worth of corned beef, freezedried soup and instant coffee

 

[rg598]

I belive you got it all wrong mate.
A survivalist is doing his best trying not to die. A "bushcrafter" is trying to live. In my opinion theres a subtle, but very important difference in those two statements.
The term "bushcraft" is pretty new to me, and there is really no good translation of the word in norwegian. The first time I ever saw the word being used was while watching a Ray Mears-episode on YT a couple of years ago. Even though the word is new I have been a bushcrafter all my life, but I have never thought of it as anything else than everyday life. I got my first knife and fishingpole when I was 6 years old.
Within 10 years I would have adapted and survived fairly good. I would probably have become some kind of a nomad, shifting habitat with the time of year and the shifting of flora and fauna.
You, on the other hand, would be carrying around 10 years worth of corned beef, freezedried soup and instant coffee

Check out the challenge: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89191 I look forward to your report.

 

[Skaukraft]

Interessting challenge, I'll admit.
My summer is already fully booked this year, but if you accept late participants, I might be able to attend in late august.

 

[adventure]

I belive you got it all wrong mate.
A survivalist is doing his best trying not to die. A "bushcrafter" is trying to live. In my opinion theres a subtle, but very important difference in those two statements.
The term "bushcraft" is pretty new to me, and there is really no good translation of the word in norwegian. The first time I ever saw the word being used was while watching a Ray Mears-episode on YT a couple of years ago. Even though the word is new I have been a bushcrafter all my life, but I have never thought of it as anything else than everyday life. I got my first knife and fishingpole when I was 6 years old.
Within 10 years I would have adapted and survived fairly good. I would probably have become some kind of a nomad, shifting habitat with the time of year and the shifting of flora and fauna.
You, on the other hand, would be carrying around 10 years worth of corned beef, freezedried soup and instant coffee

No, I on the other hand if the world went bad I would be eating YOUR food after I kill you.

Thats what a average survivalist on the forums I go to visit would say and do, ( half of them live in the states ) Thats not my opinion by the way , I would not really kill anyone

And I have not got it wrong, I am correct, its all about self-preservation.

 

[Laurentius]

Because frankly you don't need any bushcraft skills to feel a "kinship with the wilderness." An occassional picnic in the park or a trip to the zoo can give that self-same kinship with little to no knowledge or skill. And true bushcraft involves more than "a treasure trove of wisdom." Simply the wisdom of how to light a fire carries no value at all if you cain't physically do it. Most bushcraft skills involve not only knowledge (wisdom) but also practice and often hard work (e.g. cutting, splitting, and stacking a supply of firewood for the winter) It ain't romantic; it's HARD WORK.

Survival, Bushcraft ... whatever, I am now reverting into a gardener and that is definately hard work after a gap of 13 years or so. It's a whole new toolset as well, secateurs, loppers, spades, rakes, trowels, etc.

 

[British Red]

ahhh but we can now debate hand forged hoes as well


Ohhh and spades.....love a well made spade......

 

[Edcraft]

Survival takes many forms.

 

[santaman2000]

Survival, Bushcraft ... whatever, I am now reverting into a gardener and that is definately hard work after a gap of 13 years or so. It's a whole new toolset as well, secateurs, loppers, spades, rakes, trowels, etc.

Enjoy it! I'm only on a VERY small scale at the moment but there are few more rewarding persuits.

 

[Imagedude]

Bushcraft® is the new name for campcraft and was adopted after the 1984 rebranding.