Bushcraft PLCE webbing

[Man of Tanith]

Hi all
Not that i often wear it but i have assorted bits of webbing and pouches kicking about,
including a 2 quart us canteen which i find more practical than carrying just one smaller water bottle, it has alice clips on the back to fix it to webbing belts and i find it very useful as it means i can carry more liquid with me, hae you ever considered one of those bushcraftbaird?
I use a webtex utility pouch to carry my brew kit-crusader cooker, mug and nato bottle, set of windproof/waterproof matches and hexi blocks assorted tea and sugar(dont drink coffe since i was banned from it) and a smaller webtex pouch to carry binoculars in.
I do not tend to wear them on a belt as i find it weighs me down around the stomach and digs in i have a dutch air force rucksack with alice attachments and webbing on the outside which the pouches can be fixed onto.
personally i think webbing has its place in bushcraft as much as the leather pouches or a rucksack and i was never in the forces.
its a case of horses for courses me thinks
regards
Sam

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I originally made this thread to get suggestions on my kit but now its gone from that to telling about stupid 999 calls. It wasnt exactly what I had hoped for.

ahh yes, memories... (sorry from me just holding the torch for webbing users)

sadly, this happens every time Webbing is mentioned!

I like the Kit displayed, I know ALICE gear is light, and strong If anything,

Can you make it more comfortable? add padding to the inside of the belt,
Tape up the hooks so they don't catch on other gear.

next: put it on and jump up and down...if the pouches move up and down this is called "pouch bounce" and can cause problems like loosening the pouches, bruising or friction burn from pouches. The simple way to fix this is to run a bungee or cord through the back of the pouches, I've had to sew on paracord loops to do this.

can you waterproof things in the pouches? incase you get wet!

can you carry the sheath knife another way? (that's about the only thing that would worry people and would get you in trouble) I don't carry any knifes on view unless I'm on private land(that has been arranged).

I tend to find if i get one bit of kit i want to get the rest (the set) but before you do this are there ways you can adapt pouches or change them?

can you add a "chest (sternum) strap" to the shoulders?

a poncho roll type arrangement is useful to carry sheets(and there is an ALICE version).

Make sure you balance the pouches! i.e., if you have a water bottle on one side carry something equally heavy the opposite side.

there are things you can do to make sure you don't loose kit one popular army trick is to tie everything to the pouch it comes from "Idiot cords" I tried this it partially worked unless you wanted to walk off with a bit of kit..

and lastly get used to where everything is, I have put roughly the same kit in the same pouch configuration for many years now and I always know where items are, more importantly you can tell if something's missing!

:You_Rock_

 

[Man of Tanith]

i rate the poncho roll highly
knew i forgot something in my last post, its brilliant for keeping oncho accessable n not hidden away in pack!
regards
Sam

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

i rate the poncho roll highly
knew i forgot something in my last post, its brilliant for keeping oncho accessable n not hidden away in pack!
regards
Sam

Agreed! I made a Nylon one for an Arktis set i have, I copied the SASS version, which has extra pockets, inside to carry para cord, tent pegs, documents etc
I've added some Fastex clips so it can be carried on the side of my PLCE Bergen or even on the PLCE side pouch yoke.

I find belt kit to be a lot more comfy to carry some times than a day pack but i only use it if going out for more than one night as it never leaves me so if I loose the bergan still got kit to keep me happy till I find bergan or get found. I dont wear it when going round the country parks with the wife as the locols look at you funny.

Most of the kit you have in the picture can be carried in smock pockets and just an S10 resi pouch will do will not look so "local melitia" when out. Just my 2p worth.
Belt kit

Pouch contents inline with the pouch

L to R
1 FFD
2 Torch and Gloves and Carry stretcher and alcohol gel.
3 Auscam Basha with IPC pegs and GID Pegs
4 Brew kit main rats cooker and poo shovel
5 First aid kit and TB and mosi rep and spare para cord
6 Water bottle mug and lid
7 Mosi head net dry bag for GPS
8 Buck folder on para cord (I tend to drop and lose knifes)

Strap hang edc

1 G10 watch compass and pace beads (home made)

Belt kit is Dragon supplies airbourne webbing very comfy to wear for long periods of time.

Swampy

I really like this kit, especially the colour! I'm guessing it's desert DPM with the pale colour filled in?
I can see you carry pretty much the same sort of kit I do:You_Rock_

It's similar what the army used to call CEFO Combat Equipment Fighting Order, (i.e. what you fight in) basically ammo, water, but enough food and essentials to keep you functioning for 24 hours. Your Bergen would be stored a short distance away from the battle area for later use.

It looks like pretty gucci kit! I like the very strong 58" Metal clip (origionaly found on 58 large pack and poncho roll) what to you carry on it?(I seem to remember soldiers saying they are good to sling a kevlar helmet.
Just looking at your kit, the only thing that is perhaps not so needed is the shovel.
cheers for the pic!

 

[johnboy]

Can you make it more comfortable? add padding to the inside of the belt,
Tape up the hooks so they don't catch on other gear.

Or for less faffing around use a daysack....

next: put it on and jump up and down...if the pouches move up and down this is called "pouch bounce" and can cause problems like loosening the pouches, bruising or friction burn from pouches. The simple way to fix this is to run a bungee or cord through the back of the pouches, I've had to sew on paracord loops to do this.

Or use a daysack it's unlikely to give you 'webbing burns' ......

can you waterproof things in the pouches? incase you get wet!

An ortlieb bag or other 'canoe' style stuff sack inside a Daysack would work really well...

can you add a "chest (sternum) strap" to the shoulders?

Somewhat like a daysack...

 

[ex Member swampy99]

I really like this kit, especially the colour! I'm guessing it's desert DPM with the pale colour filled in?


It looks like pretty gucci kit! I like the very strong 58" Metal clip (origionaly found on 58 large pack and poncho roll) what to you carry on it?(I seem to remember soldiers saying they are good to sling a kevlar helmet.
Just looking at your kit, the only thing that is perhaps not so needed is the shovel.
cheers for the pic!

It was just plain sand colour and I sprayed it lightly with a bit of OD green and black in stripes plus it has worn in a bit getting thrown around on training areas and the like.

The dog clip can be used for helmets but i use it for some pig skin gloves when having to go through stingers to protect the hands and then just hook them on there.

Now the shovel I think is a good thing I can dig a small hole to put the burner in thus makeing a wind break as the last time I used the kit as a wind break it started to melt the tag on the roll pin buckle. Plus if you need a poo you can bury it (i know your all going but use a digging stick)the only thing I may change is the auscam basha to a britsh desert one as it is a bit bigger and i think stronger as it can be used as stretcher then I can ditch the carry stretcher aswell.
Kit was purchased from http://www.dragonsupplies.co.uk/ also got the airbourne bergan based on the old GS bergan frame is a bit heavy but is bomb proof kit. have a snugpak bergan when not using the belt kit and bergan together.
No conection with dragons just a very happy customer plus they can custom kit for you if you ask, had the top pocket taken off bergan and had zips so now can carry 3 plce side pouches. may show photo of that if people want to see.

 

[sandbender]

I originally made this thread to get suggestions on my kit but now its gone from that to telling about stupid 999 calls. It wasnt exactly what I had hoped for.

That was my fault, sorry

In my youth, when I was involved in the CCF and OTC I would use a modified 58 pattern setup. I thought that the 'kidney' pouch was a fairly useless item and replaced those with three additional 58 pattern water bottle pouches, making five in total. In my late teens and early twenties I would still use the same setup but without the ammo pouches, although I had to modify the yoke to do so. The five water-bottle pouches and poncho roll would hold enough all my gear for a weekend trip to the woods. Two water bottles, a metal crusader mug, gaz stove, food, buck 184 , poncho and bungees. For the journey to and from the woods I'd carry the webbing and a very small sleeping bag in a 58 pattern large pack.

Once I'd moved on from the whole 'Combat and Survival Magazine' phase I stopped using webbing and moved through a succession of Lowe Rucksacks including the very heavy but very comfy Lowe Vector Commando.

These days I usually carry my gear in super lightweight alpine rucksacks although if I'm staying put for a while I can still put a belt kit together, it just isn't an ex military one.

 

[gregorach]

can you carry the sheath knife another way? (that's about the only thing that would worry people and would get you in trouble) I don't carry any knifes on view unless I'm on private land(that has been arranged).

I have a little clippy thing I made from a bit of 1" webbing strap, a fastex buckle, and some brass stock, which I use as a knife attachment point.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I've looked at dragon supplies gear before, very nice kit!!!
I think i may add a clip to my webbing, seems a good idea, and i have loads of those clips!


John boy...oh dear...I can tell you're not ready to convert to army pouches yet.

But I'm afraid you are in the minority on this thread

are they not all the same questions/suggestions when buying trying on a rucksack?

i.e. trying on different sorts, making sure it fits, adding straps to carry things like Ice axes.

and you know it's possible to get "Bergen rash" (friction burn).

An ortlieb bag or other 'canoe' style stuff sack inside a Daysack would work really well...

Yup, you could and spend 5 mins trying to find an item somewhere in there! or use a small pouch sized bag and find kit in seconds!

Ok, so you like rucksacs so much? so why don't they just have 1 huge compartment? You don't see many bags like that do you.


this is starting to become a boring argument...

as has been mentioned, this is a thread about webbing advice.
people have already decided to use it
we don't need to know what a rucksack does,

cheers

 

[johnboy]

Rappleby,

John boy...oh dear...I can tell you're not ready to convert to army pouches yet.

That’s a correct statement even if it’s made in 18 point bold text. Fortunately I’m not easily aggravated else I could mis-construe it as shouting but I noticed a lot of your posts in this thread seem to feature 'exaggerated' text so I guess you're easily excited anyhow I digress somewhat…..

I’m personally unlikely to spend a heap of cash on some ‘coyote brown’ Airborne webbing and spray it camouflage, nor am I likely to scour around for some SAS drop pouches and assemble a prefect replica of an SAS belt kit. Nor am I likely to wear a Black SWAT vest to work…Nor play Airsoft. Nor take 'Combat and Survival' style pictures of my webbing and it's contents. However I do grasp the concept that all of the above makes some people very happy. Go You..

But I'm afraid you are in the minority on this thread

That may be so… However being in the minority doesn’t make my view any more or less valid does it? The forum is reasonably democratic thus minority views are allowed to be voiced. I’m happy to be in the minority here on a thread about webbing. I would ask, Am I in the minority out in the ‘real world’??

are they not all the same questions/suggestions when buying trying on a rucksack?

i.e. trying on different sorts, making sure it fits, adding straps to carry things like Ice axes.

and you know it's possible to get "Bergen rash" (friction burn).

I only know too well about Bergen Burn (rash). I once spent a considerable amount of time running around with a set of 58patt and a SAS/ PARA Bergen on a Course carrying logs, a stretcher race, a 10 miler that sort of thing. I had horrendous Bergen and Webbing burns real sheet peelers not nice at all.
However most rucksacks are somewhat better designed than the Old SAS/ PARA Bergen (or at least not designed to be chucked out of an aircraft and survive the landing nor sit above webbing or ‘belt order&#8217 and are designed to share the weight between your hips and shoulders via a waist belt and the shoulder straps. A well fitting rucksack with a normal load is unlikely to give you Bergen rash. In years of working with groups in the outdoors I’ve never seen anything that I would classify as ‘Bergen burn’ However I would concede you might get sore shoulders and perhaps even a few zits on your shoulders from sweat, The same is true with webbing yokes IMHO…. You're unlikely to have to modify most mainstream rucksacks with bungiees and paracord loops to get them to 'sit right'.

Yup, you could and spend 5 mins trying to find an item somewhere in there! or use a small pouch sized bag and find kit in seconds!

We discussed this in an earlier post. It’s perfectly possible in my experience to organise a daysack or Bergen so you can find kit without having to rummage around. The question was really therefore one of timeliness of needing a piece of kit in ‘seconds’. I find that I generally don’t need to grab something in ‘seconds’ when I’m out or about. But I don't live in the UK anymore so perhaps I'm a bit different.....

Ok, so you like rucksacs so much? so why don't they just have 1 huge compartment? You don't see many bags like that do you

.

That’s a bit of a fatuous question IMHO.

this is starting to become a boring argument...

Far from it It’s not an argument at least not from my perspective. It’s a discussion and my point of view about the practicality or perhaps the overstatement of practicality of Webbing useage for bushcraft in the UK is different to yours.

as has been mentioned, this is a thread about webbing advice.

Indeed and my considered advice is for most intents and purposes a rucksack is a better choice.

people have already decided to use it
we don't need to know what a rucksack does,

I'm not suggesting for one second that anyone needs my advice on what a rucksack does.

Thus I close my 'argument' and I can let you revet to your discussion where to place your 'helmet' clip. I might have a suggestion but it may be inpolite to offer it...

 

[phaserrifle]

Okay, my piece of webbing/belt kit advice:
know when to take it off!
I found that when I used it (this may just be me) that I was wearing it, more or less fully loaded, everywhere. Complete with survival kit, brew kit and water. Which was obviously fairly heavy, and not brilliantly comfortable.
Just to point this out, I'm not saying it was more uncomfortable than if I had done the same thing with a backpack, just that if I had used a backpack I would have dumped it in my tent as soon as I set up camp, and not been tempted to carry it round every waking hour.

as to the usefullness of webbing, I found the ability to organise things far easier in the webbing than in any kind of rucksack. it also meant that the organiseation remained at a level througout the camp, rather than my rucksack, which quickly ends up looking like a bomb has gone off inside it, as soon as I have to go rummaging for something that's packed down nearer the bottom.

On a separate note, this thread has re-awakened my inexplicable like for webbing kit, despite being thoroughly mocked for it on several scout camps.
If I use it on the next one, it's your fault!

 

[Toddy]

While this thread might well be intended for the webbing afficianados, by virtue of it being on the forum it invites discussion.

Not everyone will agree that webbing is the most practical way to go, but then that's part of the discussion, isn't it ?



Personally, I don't see the need for instant access to my brew kit, basha or stove. I'm not for lugging it around my waist when it all tucks neatly into a lightweight pack, that still has space for my foraging too.

That's another point, my pack weighs less than a kilo, what weight do all those pouches (empty +belt) add up to ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[gregorach]

Who would have thought that load-carrying kit could be so contentious?

A daysack is a perfectly reasonable choice - for a day walk. That's why they're called "daysacks". However, when you've got all your camping gear for a weekend or longer on your back, there's a lot to be said for being able to get at your brew kit without having to open your pack and rummage around inside it. There's also a lot to be said for being able to dump that big pack somewhere and go off for a wander with just the bare essentials (and I regard the makings of a decent cup of tea, a first-aid kit, a compass and some minimal emergency kit to be "bare essentials", especially when you're already a day's walk into some of the remoter parts of the Highlands), without having to re-organise all your kit from one pack into another.

Also, what phaserrifle said:

it also meant that the organiseation remained at a level througout the camp, rather than my rucksack, which quickly ends up looking like a bomb has gone off inside it, as soon as I have to go rummaging for something that's packed down nearer the bottom.

Maybe I'm badly organised, but I find this a major problem. It's amazing how much stuff I can lose inside a 45L pack.

Is there any chance we could all agree that there isn't "One True Way", and that different people in different circumstances might make different choices for entirely valid reasons?

I don't do much in the way of day walks. When I do, I tend to use a daysack. When I'm out on a longer trip, I find the combination of minimal webbing and a main pack works well for me.

 

[Toddy]

Minimal webbing I can see the value of, most of the menfolks I know carry small pouches for specific tools around them all the time, but that's a lot different from carrying bashas and stoves. That's what the side pouches on a wee pack are for

This thread has done a usual BcUK ramble, hasn't it ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[gregorach]

Well, I can't speak for anybody else, but my webbing set consists of one canteen pouch ('58 waterbottle and mug, Crusader cooking system with mini stove, foil lid and windsheild, Pre-Mac water filter), one double ammo pouch (fuel bottle, headnet, insect repellent, compass, monocular, mirror, tinder pouch, drinks pack, KFS, sharpening stone, torch, paracord) and a FAK. Some of the stuff that's in the webbing doesn't really need to be there (I hardly ever need the mirror or the sharpening stone, for example), I just find it's the easiest place to keep it.

Side pouches on a wee pack are fine - if you're carrying a wee pack. Like I say, I like to be able to leave my main pack in camp and go for a wander. I've tried the side-pouches-and-yoke approach, and not been very happy with it.. The side-pouch daysack is awkwardly sized, badly balanced, and uncomfortable, IMHO. There are times when it's useful (for example, if you want to walk in to a base camp and then do a series of proper day walks from that base) but it's not my preferred option for the kind of camping I do most often, where I set up camp and then just bimble about the immediate locality. I don't feel the need to carry shelter or a change of clothes for that sort of thing - it can all stay in camp.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Hi again......why is the argument still going?

Who would have thought that load-carrying kit could be so contentious?

I know. I'd best not mention my choice of music!

I accept all that has been said and I accept it is a forum,
it's just annoying when you are giving and taking advice about webbing
and someone who dislikes webbing sticks an oar in to say you're all wrong...

Johnboy is right, day sacks can be used effectively for carrying small items,
it dosn't mean using a different system is wrong, it's just different.

why not start a thread on how to pack a daysack? instead of telling us how not to use webbing? I'd read it, as i never know how to pack my Daypack when cycling.

as I've said all along "each to their own",

Johnboy and many others used webbing in the military and hated it,
I and many others used webbing in and out of the military and liked it.
many, many, more people have never tried it.

it's a free world and we can choose to use webbing, there's nothing political or malicious about it, It's our choice!

can't we just agree to disagree pretty please!

Mods: Please don't lock the thread! as i see it could go that way.

More webbing advice:​

it's worth makrking on your belt the favorite position of your pouches with a magic marker. When/if you come to washing/repairing or changing the pouches around you can find the position easily, this works well for my Yoke as i sometimes take it off.

a tip learned from the army, always fill your water bottle to the top, it stops it making the "slooshing" sound when you are trying to move quietly.

if you need to lie down for shooting or animal watching make sure the front pouches are further back towards your sides.

you can spray waterproofing onto canvas and nylon pouches!

make a list of the kit and where you put it and how much you use it, eventually you'll see some kit could be removed or improved.

 

[phaserrifle]

annother tip, which is applicable to anyone who uses a water bladder, weather with webbing or not (you can, with the right bladder, fit a two liter water bladder in a PLCE water bottle pouch btw). after filling it, turn it upside down, and suck the air out. this stops the sloshing noise. which you may want to get rid of so it doesn't disturb wild life ect (especialy if you are hunting or stalking wildlife) or so it doesn't irritate you (which is why I do it)

 

[gregorach]

The noise I hate most is the rattle of the handles on the '58 pattern mug - drives me mental! Easily fixed with a rubber band though.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

phaserrifle: as to the usefullness of webbing, I found the ability to organise things far easier in the webbing than in any kind of rucksack. it also meant that the organiseation remained at a level througout the camp, rather than my rucksack, which quickly ends up looking like a bomb has gone off inside it, as soon as I have to go rummaging for something that's packed down nearer the bottom.

somewhat like my reasoning! organization is never easy for me, I just use webbing cause it's tidy already!

phaserrifle: annother tip, which is applicable to anyone who uses a water bladder, weather with webbing or not (you can, with the right bladder, fit a two liter water bladder in a PLCE water bottle pouch btw).

A water bladder in a pouch, not really considered it before, good idea!
I've heard of US army water bottles being used in a similar way, they have an NBC gas mask valve ontop (same as a 58 bottle), i can't remember the details but they fix a drinking tube through the valve(or take it off?) so they can drink but use the same bottle.

gregorach: The noise I hate most is the rattle of the handles on the '58 pattern mug - drives me mental! Easily fixed with a rubber band though.

I use old car tyre inner tubes cut up into really "big" 2" wide rubber bands.

I've 1 around my 58 cup (though i don't often carry it).
I've 1 around each of my my cruasader cups and it holds a metal lid tightly to it.
a similar rubber band cut from a push bike inner tube,around the lid of the 58 water bottles, as it dosen't happen often but sometimes i find the lids get stuck and the rubber band helps with opening.

something i found a few years ago, is Glow-in-the dark beads, I've put them on some smaller items.

also i made a sort of kit roll for my smallest tools flint, multitool, sharpener, etc all these items have a small piece (1"or 2") of "Day glow" shoelace as they are the bit's I'm most likely to misplace.

as for taking Photo's of kit I find this very useful as i can look back to my ALICE gear i used in 1997 and see how my kit has changed.

 

[phaserrifle]

The noise I hate most is the rattle of the handles on the '58 pattern mug - drives me mental! Easily fixed with a rubber band though.

I don't get this. but then, I have a feeling I'm not using a 58 pattern mug. it's either dutch or american. works though.
plus, If you have other stuff in the bottom of the pouch, they can't rattle round till you take it out.

I've got all my old webbing out again.
next stop, ridicule (via ferny crofts scout campsite)