Very interesting. I think you are raising more interesting options.
I think a mirror is a bit small, but the Wanderer looks interesting, but no build your own.
Something like this on the other hand is very interesting. julie-skiff
Bushcraft Boat? Ref: Rivers TV Show
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Very interesting. I think you are raising more interesting options.
I think a mirror is a bit small, but the Wanderer looks interesting, but no build your own.
Something like this on the other hand is very interesting. julie-skiff
Glad you think so. I think it's a shame more folks don't use boats in and around the UK, though I suspect it's the thought of learning to sail and the costs that can involve which puts many off.
I know what you mean about the Mirror, but they are cheap way to get you on the water.
The Julie Skiff looks very interesting. Lots of boats like that being home-built in the states currently. This might be of interest too: http://www.smallboatforum.com/PDFfiles/RaidBoats.pdf shows a number of different boats with a few details.
Selway Fisher might be worth looking at too: http://www.selway-fisher.com/ lots of designs for the home builder.
I am not sure that is true? I think we are a big boating nation, but very defined, so you get the canoes, sea sailors, motor boaters, and tourists.
I can sail, but as I said I really need to take some real lessons in a real begineer boat to understand it, and move forward with it. I do think that if you want to learn to sea sail, paying out the money is a good idea because knowing what you are doing out there is such a good idea. I know a millonaire who has not gone all the way to the full ticket because the price put him off.
I think why I like the idea of building my own is that no one seems to be making what I want.
When you decide on what you want to build, please make a blogg of the process so we can follow.
Best of luck
Al
Will do.
Some more links that look interesting for people :-
Three articles about the same sailing canoes, very interesting, seems the idea got left behind because of the pursuit of speed.
modern-decked-sailing-canoes
modern-decked-sailing-canoes
modern-decked-sailing-canoes
WP Stephens canoe book
Dragonfly Canoe looks an interesting website to explore.
One thing to mention a canoe in sailing terms can be really big. They get yacht sized.
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Don't know if I've been at it long enough to offer advice on sailing canoes but first impressions are:
Wobbly when empty - not uncommon with any canoe really. I've already gathered a selection of lead flashing scraps that I ballast up with for day trips as the first couple of days out were a bit nerve wracking.
Narrow for sailing - it's not going to tip but it sure does feel like it. When you catch a gust it keels over alarmingly fast. I've only got a throwover lee board which does nothing for lateral damping. Fixed lee boards are probably better but I don't know by how much.
You also get a lot of rocking about over waves with the mast raising the COG, even a light aluminium mast. Again, it's much worse when empty.
Cold - you have to wrap up well. You're not paddling, just sitting in the base of the canoe. Amazing how chilly it gets when you're not exerting any energy.
Hatches are awkward - but you get used to them. No different to a sea kayak, you trim before you set off. At least you're in an open cockpit so you can trim on the fly using your own bodyweight. The model I've got has pedals for the rudder which limit your ability to do this quite a lot but so far it hasn't been an issue.
Although the bulkheads are watertight the combing will trap water and make recovery difficult. I haven't tried yet as I've just been trying to keep it sunny side up but as John mentioned it won't be as easy as with an open canoe. The mast and sail are likely to cause even more problems than the combing.
Fragile - 5mm marine ply just doesn't inspire the same confidence as royalex or the likes. You just have to accept that wading out to knee deep is the way to go. I don't intend to take it anywhere near rivers.
Sounds like a whole bunch of cons but catch the right force 3 and it's a joy to scoot along in.
An aquired taste I'd say and considering that an open canoe can be set up for sailing(and is far more versatile)......
Hop on a plane to Glasgow, I'll pick you up and drop you at Loch Lomond for a weekend with the boat, give you a chance to try it out.
The model I have is a 13'8" Macgregor, specs can be seen here.
Wobbly when empty - not uncommon with any canoe really. I've already gathered a selection of lead flashing scraps that I ballast up with for day trips as the first couple of days out were a bit nerve wracking.
Narrow for sailing - it's not going to tip but it sure does feel like it. When you catch a gust it keels over alarmingly fast. I've only got a throwover lee board which does nothing for lateral damping. Fixed lee boards are probably better but I don't know by how much.
You also get a lot of rocking about over waves with the mast raising the COG, even a light aluminium mast. Again, it's much worse when empty.
Cold - you have to wrap up well. You're not paddling, just sitting in the base of the canoe. Amazing how chilly it gets when you're not exerting any energy.
Hatches are awkward - but you get used to them. No different to a sea kayak, you trim before you set off. At least you're in an open cockpit so you can trim on the fly using your own bodyweight. The model I've got has pedals for the rudder which limit your ability to do this quite a lot but so far it hasn't been an issue.
Although the bulkheads are watertight the combing will trap water and make recovery difficult. I haven't tried yet as I've just been trying to keep it sunny side up but as John mentioned it won't be as easy as with an open canoe. The mast and sail are likely to cause even more problems than the combing.
Fragile - 5mm marine ply just doesn't inspire the same confidence as royalex or the likes. You just have to accept that wading out to knee deep is the way to go. I don't intend to take it anywhere near rivers.
Sounds like a whole bunch of cons but catch the right force 3 and it's a joy to scoot along in.
An aquired taste I'd say and considering that an open canoe can be set up for sailing(and is far more versatile)......
Hop on a plane to Glasgow, I'll pick you up and drop you at Loch Lomond for a weekend with the boat, give you a chance to try it out.
The model I have is a 13'8" Macgregor, specs can be seen here.
That was one of my thoughts. I bet with a little thought on a Canadian Canoe, with a stabilzer, you could make something that was a joy to sail. I would have thought a self build would make for a better boat. Get the feeling that the production people are making copies of what they were making years ago. Apart from anything else you could build in the board, and mast points etc.
I think the big thing that puts me off is that sailing is too much effort. Paddling does not require you to pay massive amounts of attention to it, so something like that makes more sense to me.
That is why I was thinking of electric/cycling power plus paddlability. I like the idea of something like a cross between a skiff and pontoon, and a little more high tech. Storage, and the ability to get out of, or keep going in the rain seem very useful additions as well.
Thanks for the offer will have to give it some serous thought.
Eeek! Lead ballast in a sailing kayak. I would use water filled containers myself, more bulky I know, but at least neutrally bouyant in the event of a capsize. Also allows you maintain the versatility of a canoe/kayak for portages etc.
Al
I often sail my open canoe.
My mast is my canoe pole, my leeboard is my paddle,
The only alteration to the canoe was fitting (glue) a mast foot and a mast thwart instead of a plain front thwart.
The sail I made myself with a colapsible tent pole for a boom - and the sail doubles as part of my shelter at night.
As to ply being too fragile for rivers - I have run grade 3 rapids in my 4mm ply open canoe and the ply has never damaged...the fibreglass tape on the seams has busted before now - but not the ply! I would rate a well made ply canoe as possibly more robust than a glassfibre one....
Open Canoes are the most versatile of all boats for Bushcraft!
My mast is my canoe pole, my leeboard is my paddle,
The only alteration to the canoe was fitting (glue) a mast foot and a mast thwart instead of a plain front thwart.
The sail I made myself with a colapsible tent pole for a boom - and the sail doubles as part of my shelter at night.
As to ply being too fragile for rivers - I have run grade 3 rapids in my 4mm ply open canoe and the ply has never damaged...the fibreglass tape on the seams has busted before now - but not the ply! I would rate a well made ply canoe as possibly more robust than a glassfibre one....
Open Canoes are the most versatile of all boats for Bushcraft!
I think I am missing something in this you know?
Simple put, that makes a lot of sense. Why not build into a self build Canadian canoe, a hole for the mast, and a centre board slot. Would seem to make perfect sense. Maybe it is a gap in my sailing knowledge.
Interesing sail boat! This boat is roof rackable, and sea worthy. Not sure I would fancy it in the Irish but good luck to anyone who wants to try it.
While I was looking for this link, saw a couple of bizarre ideas. Take a canadian canoe, and turn it into a trimaran. Need the canoe, just unslot it, and paddle away.
Not seen any problem about ply canoes. Would have thought they are stronger than a normal wood one.
Have seen strips, sometimes wood, sometimes metal, on the bottom that must be to take the drag damage etc. Replace them not the bottom of the canoe.
I agree, but I do think maybe a little more thought into design might not be a bad idea.
No need to comprompise the hull with a centre board - a leeboard is all you need and it can clip on/off!
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