brass pans

[Moff8]

There was an episode of House where a nun suddenly became ill and it was the cummulation of copper from eating out of and cleaning the pots in the convent (and a copper coil but that was the twist in the tail)

So if an american doc soap says its true then it must be

 

[ForgeCorvus]

Question for you lot
I have a brass pot just like that one just smaller (only abour 6 or 7 inches across), I've cleaned it using stuff like wirewool and monkey brand
However its now getting vurdigres (I wish I could spell, 'that green crud'), is there anyway I can protect it (and still use it) and is there anyway to get that stuff off that doesn't need hours of hard labour and abrasives ?

BTW it cost me 2 squids

 

[exped.equip.]

In the same way that copper enters the body from pans does the wearing of the copper bracelet around the wrist(that sends your wrist green ) cause the same problems?? I was led to believe that the copper/ toxins that entered the paws in the skin was actually good for joint problems or is this sort of an old wives tale??

 

[Mike Ameling]

Question for you lot
I have a brass pot just like that one just smaller (only abour 6 or 7 inches across), I've cleaned it using stuff like wirewool and monkey brand
However its now getting vurdigres (I wish I could spell, 'that green crud'), is there anyway I can protect it (and still use it) and is there anyway to get that stuff off that doesn't need hours of hard labour and abrasives ?

BTW it cost me 2 squids

Copper and brass "oxidize" when exposed to the air. If you start hand cleaning/rubbing/polishing your pot by hand, by the time you get back around to where you started it's already getting dull - and tarnishing. The only way to keep copper or brass polished Bright is to coat it with some clear poly or shelack right away. But you can't do that on the inside if you wish to cook in it. So you settle on a "clean but dull" finish on the inside. The really bad stuff is that green crud - verdigris. That's the stuff that will easily come off in your food, and then get into your system.

That other thing to remember is the level of exposure you get to that copper/brass in the food you eat. A little bit eaten occasionally usually doesn't affect people (unless you are particularily sensitive/allergic to copper/brass).

And there are various claims/studies that a little bit of copper in your system does help your joints - this the wearing of copper braclets. Full controlled medical studies on this? I don't know, I've never looked to see.

Just some more humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[ForgeCorvus]

The copper bracelets work (supposedly) by you absorbing a small amount of copper salts (the green stain) via your skin (most of it stays on your outsides), this acts as a homiopathic (I think I spelled that right) dosage

Copper is the standard treatment for stiffness of the joints as copper poisoning (ie a massive dose) causes your joints to stiffen and become painful.

I'm going to try boiling orange juice in mine to acid pickle it, then I'm going to give it a coat of cooking oil

My Mums jam pan is still clean on the inside (after a least a year) having been used for marmalade, its the same kind only much bigger

 

[Kepis]

I have a dodgy left wrist, that has given me jip for ages, (got to have an op eventually) so I got myself a copper bracelet to try it out, been wearing it for around six months now, and not a sign of an ache or pain in the wrist like i used to have, and yes i have a green wrist

 

[rancid badger]

I have a dodgy left wrist, that has given me jip for ages, (got to have an op eventually) so I got myself a copper bracelet to try it out, been wearing it for around six months now, and not a sign of an ache or pain in the wrist like i used to have, and yes i have a green wrist

One of my best mates is a chartered physio and he claims there is no proven benefit in wearing copper bracelets-tough cacky! I'm wearing mine all the same
Kind regards
R.B.
oh p.s. I've polished up the pan but it's serving as a repository for various artefact's at the moment, thats Repository!

 

[Le Loup]

I guess I am probably too late to reply to this thread, but I will offer this info anyway just in case it is of any use now.

As far as I know, brass contains lead, so you should not cook in it or eat from it. Foods containing more acid than others will probably go black if cooked in brass, such as tomatoes for instance.
The good news is that you can purchase tin lined copies of the 18th century brass or copper trade kettle.
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4366/kettlebookcover.jpg[img]
This one is much smaller than the one you show in your image, & is more suitable for carrying in a knapsack.
Regards.

 

[Le Loup]

Posting image in above post did not work! Here is my tin lined trade kettle.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com

 

[rancid badger]

Just seen this reply from Le Loup

there's a company here, that re-tins brass and copper cookware but I can't for the life of me, remember what it was called now!

cheers

R.B.

 

[DaveBromley]

I got one similar to the OP on ebay about 3 weeks ago and can't wait to start making jam later in the year with all the fruit from my new allotment!!!

Dave

 

[_mark_]

it should be tin lined, if not don't use it, be on the lookout for Verdigris, it's toxic. clean with baking soda and water.

 

[santaman2000]

I guess I am probably too late to reply to this thread, but I will offer this info anyway just in case it is of any use now.

As far as I know, brass contains lead, so you should not cook in it or eat from it...

SOME brass alloys contain lead. Other alloys use silicon. Presumably a cooking vessel would not be of the lead alloy type but then again it might not be safe to take that for granted. California has sued at least 2 manufacturers of brass keys because the lead content was above the State's permissible safe handling limits (assuming the users handled their keys twice per day)

It's interesting to note that another very common metal used in kitchenware/tableware is a lead alloy; Pewter.

 

[Wayland]

Just picked up a nice brass jam pan at the weekend. Cleaned up nicely and I'm happy enough to use it for boiling non acidic food like root veg for example.

Not too worried about the lead content, that was usually added to brass that was intended for machining work, but I did wonder about the salt I normally add to water for veg.

I doubt if it would acidify the water enough to be a problem but just wondered if anyone on here, with genuine knowledge of using such pans, had any thoughts?

( As is so often the case, this thread on BcUK turned out to be the most informative result I came across when doing a wider search online. Sad that Mike is no longer with us though. )

 

[TLM]

Present technical terminology seems to be that all copper alloys are called "bronze" and the main alloy is mentioned: tin bronze, zinc bronze, aluminium bronze ... That is still not the common usage though.

I understand that historically many a "bronze" was actually a "brass" meaning it was mainly a alloyed with zinc. Some of the resident archaeologists could comment. The polished colour of the metal tells a lot of the content.

Salt does not affect the pH of water all that much but it does cause corrosion via various electrolytic processes. Zinc in brass does pretty much prevent the copper from leaching as long as there is enough of it around, once it is gone the copper starts to solve, the rate depends on a lot of things. Tin passivates fairly well and so protects the underlying copper. Locally here the story is that untinned or broken-tinned pot starts to be poisonous fairly soon. Copper was last used on coffee pots and remember grandmother checking the tin lining every so often. I don't remember having heard of tin poisoning from pots but a lot of stories about copper one.

Copper is used still for water piping so it can't be all that big a problem, on the other hand I have seen recommendatios that hot tap water should not be used for drinking (too often, I guess). I have not seen actual analyses of water in various vessels or piping what the true copper content would be.

 

[Wayland]

Much of the advice out there seems contradictory and perhaps over cautious.

We used heavy cast bronze replicas of cauldrons a lot back in the early 90s when we ran a medieval kitchen, mostly for broth, stew, pottage type dishes and never had any taint or taste issues.

I suspect that any leaching would be minuscule but it doesn't do any harm to check these things out.

Being an vintage / antique pan it is difficult to be certain of it's composition but to my eye it looks more brass than bronze.

 

[TLM]

The daily recommended value of copper is of the order of 1 milligram, that is not much but on the other hand copper seems to be a necessity, it acts as a catalyst in several biological processes.

 

[Wayland]

I also think that as this will only be used occasionally I have don't have too much to worry about really.

I suspect my main intake would come from handling and cleaning the brassware I have lying around the house.

 

[Kadushu]

Scratching the inside with a spoon as you stir the contents could lift a fair bit of metal. Easily avoided with a wooden spoon.

 

[Wayland]

I usually use wooden spoons when cooking.