Billhook help..........

[jason01]

With all the talk of billhooks I wanted to try one for myself, I particularly like the idea of using traditional tools anyway and if they also happen to be old and well used all the better. I picked this one up on ebay for under a tenner and fitted a new Walnut handle (quite a tricky job, I found it more difficult than making knife scales). The convex bevel cleaned up really well and I have it polished to a mirror finish though it doesnt show up in the pic. It seems to be good steel and well tempered, no marks on the edge despite hacking away at knotty well seasoned Yew. Files skate off the surface.

I havent had chance to try it out extensively yet but I am finding it a little cumbersome to use compared with a hand axe, it doesnt seem to bite as well as my axes, I suspect this is due to the thicker blade, because of the weight distribution I dont seem to get the leverage I would with an axe, it feels heavy to use and reminds me of my steel shafted Estwing which Im not keen on because its centre of gravity is closer to my hand than a similar sized wooden shafted axe. This Billhook weighs in at 800g.

There appears to be a Government issue broadarrow on the blade though I doubt it would be army issue? Maybe just the company logo?

So....am I an incompetent user, do I have the wrong kind of Billhook, should I thin the edge down some more (this would be a big job), where am I going wrong? Maybe I just need to use it more, Ive just scored another on the bay for a fiver because it was misdescribed, (similar shape) couldnt resist it being a Brummy, from 1915 and marked "Martindale Crockadile Works, Birmingham"!

 

[Womble]

Jacks probably the best person around here to ask about billhooks; but from my limited experience I wouldn't necessarily use a billhook for all axe tasks. On the other hand there are some jobs (such as branch stripping) that it is eminantly suited for.

Nise handle btw, the whole thing looks very business-like!

 

[Realgar]

I use one and find it easy but they're much better suited for going through medium thicknesses in one blow than chopping wood axe style. I bought mine for hedge laying and coppicing - it's nice for taking out staves but you'd be there all day bringing down a tree.

From personal experience I can say Wear Gloves! - I put mine through my left hand last year.
Realgar

 

[Keith_Beef]

Very nice. I have a kitchen knife made by the same manufacturer.

Your bill hook could well have been made for the Ministry, as you suspected by the broad arrow. Soldiers need all kinds of tools, not just weapons.

S&J Kitchin produced quite a lot of military tools and weapons.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=kitchin+sheffield+blade&btnG=Search&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off


Keith.

 

[mr dazzler]

I think you can get old hooks that were made for the railways as well (keeping tracks clear etc) Not sure what they stamped with though

 

[Realgar]

Come to think of it, I've seen bill hooks with very long handles - what were they for? I can't imagine safety getting a good swing in if they were meant for high up branches.
Realgar

 

[jason01]

Come to think of it, I've seen bill hooks with very long handles - what were they for? I can't imagine safety getting a good swing in if they were meant for high up branches.
Realgar

I think they are intended for double handed use more like an axe. Short or long handled I can see these things being pretty devastating if they come into contact with flesh and bone and a glancing blow seems fairly easy to achieve. I cant see how gloves would offer much protection! With a short handled hook like mine that big lump of steel is that much closer to my flesh and bone :yikes:

Anyway....Ive thinned the handle down a fair bit since taking that photo and it now feels a lot more comfortable in my dainty hands, I shall persevere with it and see if it gets more comfortable to use with time, though I think a lighter version might suit me better.

Jason

 

[mr dazzler]

When I as about 5 or 6 and helping Daddy to trim a hedge, I came within an inch or so of turning him into Van Gogh (one ear) when I tried to swing a slashing hook.
I think the slashing (long handle) hook is used more with a slicing action not chopping like an axe.

 

[Andy]

I'd have a go at using it in the same way as I use a kukri

http://www.toratoratora.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=155&PN=1 this shows it well

 

[Ed]

I cant see how gloves would offer much protection!

They wouldn't. Its also very dangerous to use a hook while wearing gloves.... its an accident waiting to happen. Also you will loose the sensitvity as you feel your way through splitting hazel

Ed

 

[mr dazzler]

I also have seen some old anglo saxon drawings showing the tools used in agriculture through the seasons. The bill hooks (serpes) are used with a vertical upward cut as well as a downward cut. I think that is what the strange curved shape on the ends is for. Probably to prune high branches with an upwards cut, so they don't split badly off the tree. Thats my guess anyway! I use billhook to thin small (up to 1") branches with one slice. Any more than that I take an axe or saw. Very fascinating old pictures (and text). Descriptions of sickles, scythes, billhooks, sieves, axes, shovels, adzes, buckets, barrels, yokes, goads, rakes, etc all the equipment a saxon farmer would use, made of iron, leather and wood.
I would encourage you to keep practising Jason, after all no one acquires new skills overnight.
My French hook has an almost hollow ground slim blade wheras the "machine-mart" special has a very stubby angle and shoulder. Guess which cuts better?
OK perhaps I should re-shape it etc, but the French hook is just older and better, and I'll sayve sevrull arze on't grarnder lark yer noe

MR D :wave:

 

[mr dazzler]

Oh and I have used gloves with hook and axe, with no danger at all-but they're special kevlar and neoprene ones you use to get a mega grip on glass, divers use them as well. They stick to whatever you're holding, even if its wet (well it would be under water wouldn't it!! :roll:

 

[Realgar]

Its also very dangerous to use a hook while wearing gloves.... its an accident waiting to happen. Also you will loose the sensitvity as you feel your way through splitting hazel
Ed

I keep a hefty glove on the hand that's gripping the wood and keep the hand holding the blade bare if I'm doing any chopping with it, it might not stop a full blow but it's some help. For splitting and 'minor' stuff I don't bother. Having put the tip of one of those things between two of my fingers I don't take chances - it was only luck I missed all the tendons. The odd thing is it didn't hurt - not until the next day when I woke up an interesting shade of red and with a temperature.

Realgar

 

[EdS]

If your clearing ground keep your legs well out of the way of a hook.

I put a nice 1 1/2 in gash down to the bone just with a gentle swing of mine (magic superglue fixe it OK) - luckily I've got very pointy shins that deflected the blow

 

[Keith_Beef]

Come to think of it, I've seen bill hooks with very long handles - what were they for? I can't imagine safety getting a good swing in if they were meant for high up branches.
Realgar

I'm making up a bill hook with a long handle for my cousin's husband, for use in the garden. I wouldn't be worried about it. It's useful fro lopping small branches about seven feet up a tree.

So long as you get into the habit of using a stroke that always takes the blade away from you, especially if it misses, then there's very little danger of injury. Always use an easy stroke, avoid jerky movements, and stop when you're tired.


Keith.

 

[Kath]

I'll be watching this thread with interest as I just bought my first billhook at the weekend! ): Jack showed me several times, but I've already forgotten how to hold it and cut with it ... :roll: :?:

(Any chance of you making an instructional video Jack??? :-D :-D :-D)

 

[tedw]

I'm still thinking about the axe versus billhook conundrum - but was pretty nearly convinced by talking with "billhook guru" Jack at the Wilderness Gathering (thanks for that, Jack, it was very interesting).

Advice pls - what would be the best general purpose billhook design for a bushcraft beginner?

Ted W

 

[jason01]

For comparison here it is with some of my small axes, yeah two of them need new shafts, theyre a good few years old!

Now this hook has 10" of shaving sharp edge, I want to use it for Bushcraft so that means close quarters work shaping out spoons, splitting kindling or whatever, thats a lot of edge to get into trouble with! It also weighs nearly twice as much as my lightest axe, so I'm not likely to carry it if I'm walking a long way with a big pack. All that weight in the hand with no lever to swing it is always going to require a greater level of effort/energy/strength than an axe unless Im mistaken? And in my inexperienced hands the hook seems to get in the way and I find myself using the straight part of the edge closer to the handle for chopping and splitting, again reducing any effective leverage and increasing the effort required.

So.... isnt the Billhook best kept for working with green hazel and the like?

I would love someone with more experience than me to explain the pros and cons of the hook compared with an axe.

Incidentally, Im not a small bloke but I do find the Hook a hefty lump of steel to swing about, it creates a whole new set of blisters

Jason

 

[Ed]

it creates a whole new set of blisters

Doesn't it just...... try a weekend of hurdle making ;-)

So.... isnt the Billhook best kept for working with green hazel and the like?

Remember all hook patterns are made differently, depending on who made it and for what purpose. Thst means different blade length, nose, balance, and a whole host of other things. You may find you have to hunt around for a hook that suits you better.


Ed

 

[mr dazzler]

I don't make hurdles out of hazel, and as I said before the hook serves me for small green branches up to about 1" diam. If I practiced more maybe I could do more bigger cuts with it. My French hook is as sharp as my opinel knife, I could shave with either (well at a push-the hook would be a little ungainly!!) I reckon some accidents happen due to blunt edges. Good advice about stopping if your tired or not used to a lot of manual work (no shame in that its common sense) I always check where I stand if its clear and no loose branches I could get deflected by; I always cut away from me even a backhand type cut sometimes. I like to visualise the branch already cut just as I am about to make contact. As was said, you got a long exposed cutting edge but thats the hooks virtue, it slices as much as chops through.
Some hooks (eg Yorkshire) were built very sturdy with longer handle used for hedge laying. Sussex one was heavy built too. Lighter curved hooks better suited for riving hazel rods. (pulling the beak of the hook towards you through the green rods and guiding the split, levering like with a froe). There must have been as many pattern variations as there were villages at one time, evolved because of particular usages in one locality.
They still cut fagots (thin bundles of branches for traditional bread ovens), and fire kindling using a (serp) in France, and I think they still prune vines there with a slightly smaller version of a curved billhook. You can still get a variety of hook types in the supermarkets there (but the old ones are better)
MR D