Billhook help..........

[jason01]

Any chance of a pic Bryn?

Ive almost finished restoring the Crocodile (not spelled crockadile as the seller thought) Works hook and I have to say the difference between it and the first one is amazing. Weight distribution is slightly different but I think its mostly down to the thinner edge, this one cuts through wood greedily and consequently seems much easier to use dont have to swing it so hard, it does all the work

Jason

 

[Jack]

Great to see that we have some other woodland tools fans on here!

I have a picture of a woodland tool that is quite rare and I am trying to post it on this thread but I don't know how to do so........can any one help?!!

 

[jason01]

Jack

If you want to send the pic to me I dont mind posting it.

Jason@jasonbhall.freeserve.co.uk

 

[Jack]

[/IMG]


Well there it is!............maybe a bit to big, will have to learn how to resize!

Thanks for your help Stew! :biggthump


Can anybody tell me what it is called, what it is used for and how much I had to pay for it :yikes:

 

[Ed]

Looks like a mattock of some sort.... but far too small for a digging or mining ....Is it a thatching tool? ... what size is it?

Ed

 

[mr dazzler]

twwbill/twyvill-type of mortise axe
50p

 

[mr dazzler]

(cutting mortises for hurdles)
They still use a similar one to cut house frame mortices but its bigger-looks like a 2" chisel on a bazooka

 

[Ed]

Ah... I think you are right... a Twybill

Ed

 

[jason01]

Ive finished the 2nd one, now I just need to use them! Wouldnt normally choose to polish so much of the forge marks off but this one needed more drastic treatment! Trying a handle with a palm swell but will probably end up thinning it down again.

Which are considered better, Jack, hooks with tangs or hooks with sockets?

 

[mr dazzler]

How d'yer mekk yer 'andles Jason??
Do you shape/carve it first then fit to blade, or shape after fitting (like I've seen some knifemakers do)??
My best hook is tanged (tang about 6 1/2" long) without its ash handle (which I turned out of ash on a pole lathe 12 years ago - was just waiting for the right blade to go with it), it looks like an archaeic museum piece
Do you mean socketed like a socket mortice chisel or slick?
I've never dissected many hooks (only 1 in fact), and Jack will know better, but I suspect even chisel-type-socketed hooks will still have a tang, to take the sideways stresses, although It looks to me the heavy (eg Yarksher) hooks are assembled like a shuvvel with the haft running into a tube like socket, with 2 or 3 rivets to hold it together. That type of construction reminds me of the anglo-saxon and earlier iron tools where hooks and axes were forged out of a flat sheet, with the socket formed by the metal being bent over; you see it in medaieval shovels, peat shovels etc, even a modern coal shovel.
Anyway you a fast worker-that newest hoook looked "a bit worse for wear" only a few days ago

 

[jason01]

Mr D

I find it easier to drill first, fit the blank loosely then take them off and shape them, fix them securely and finish off. I used the first hook as a draw knife to rough out the handle for the 2nd hook Both of those were very tight fits, fingers crossed they don't split anytime soon!

By socketed I meant this:

Quite like the look of this one , Ive also seen the type you mentioned formed from rolled sheet like a shovel with an open seam.

So...you got any black country hooks

 

[mr dazzler]

I like the look of't two edged one in't pic 'an all-is that a "Black country" one?? Are they ones from shropshire or birmingham or somewhere? I reckon a socket like that'd be strong enough without a tang inside't handle.
I wonder exactly how the 2 edge ones were used; Possibly keep the curved hook side razor sharp and short straight section deliberately blunt for splitting stock? (easier to rive with a blunt edge) But then youd ruin't sharp edge driving with a mell or beetle. C'mon Jack help us out here
Last night I had a look at an Italienn website of a billhook foundry:- Leonelli Cav Lanfranco & snc.
They still make an unbelievable range of hooks probably hundreds; there must have been 30 or 40 variations of't starle showne in yower pictyerr. Must still be a demand for 'em in Itterley to still make 'em.
When you think about it some one far back in our ancestry discovered if a cutting edge was curved you get more cutting action for less movement of your hand than if it was straight.
When I fit an 'andle, I mekk it first, then small pilot hole (yes I've had my share of off centre efforts! :roll: ) then small chisel to shape't mortice, steady away bit by bit, plenty test fits, then degrease metal, arldite, tap home voila (I always add metal ferrule made from old cymbal stand as well)
All the best

MR D :wave:

 

[mr dazzler]

Oh I also meant to mention Jason
Next time I fit a tanged blade to a wood handle I going to try a small pilot hole for direction as I normally would, then burn the mortice with a length of scrap mild bar ground to same shape as the tang (but a little slimmer)
MR D

 

[jason01]

I just use a few different size bits down the pilot hole to give me a taper. I did think about welding a thread onto the end of the tang though, rather than riveting the tang over a washer. If you drill your hole first it doesnt matter if it runs off centre and no risk of ruining all the work youve put into shaping it.

I square up the opening with a file. The hook with the straight edge on the back is a Staffordshire pattern I think by Yates'

How do you carry yours? Ive been thinking of making a sheath.

You know, the more I handle these hooks the more I like em, who needs an expensive knife when you can get a kilo of forged steel for less than a tenner not to mention all the history we're inheriting, fascinating to wonder how many hands thyve passed through over the years and where they mightve been used.

Jason

 

[mr dazzler]

I wasn't very clear with't description.
I think I'll burn the mortice in (the scrap bar would be an exact replica of the actual tang) then scrap tthe replica. But now you mention it, youd have a way to get the wood handle on & off easily welding a thread section on.

 

[jason01]

Im not really a fan of burning tangs in and Im not sure it would be successful in any of the denser woods, I know its traditionally used by some makers for stick tanged knives in stag and similar. Also, you have the extra work of making a copy of the tang, if you were forging your own blade you could use the actual tang before heat treating, in which case it could save some work.

But then Ive never tried and it cant hurt to have a go.

Best

J

 

[boaty]

Nice looking axe Boaty-I don't think I've seen them make afore. Big £££s??
I've never used an ullu knife (is it)-the lap or inuit tool; but I imagine it being similar inne yoose to a bearded axe like your'n, with the weight and control of yore hannde directly ovver't cuttin edge, plus-can you hook't haft under't arm for extra leverage?? Have you ever made boles orr platteres?

MR D :wave:

Not so expensive - comparable in cost to a Gransfor

But its a bit short to be tucking the helve under the arm - it's not quite 18" long all told

The head is quite thick - this little axe splits really well!

It's not quite flat ground - very slightly hollow, as you can see from where its shiny after I sharpened it on a flat stone

Hmmm, bowls and platters... I feel a new project coming on! Just need to find some nice bits of wood - cheers Mr D!

 

[EdS]

Boaty,

waht wood do you want - i'm just down the road and have plenty of "logs" lieing around - how green dow you want them?

The a very large oak branch (well 1/2 tree) tha got blown down earier this year or the is some ash and beach around.

 

[boaty]

Ahh EdS, I'm really embarrassed that I haven't managed to get round to meeting up with you!

I'll check with the Social Secretary (SWMBO!) and pm you about some possible times/dates

Hey, haven't you got a Gransfors and a billhook? Would be interesting to compare these with the Roselli, and maybe my kukri too...

 

[EdS]

sounds cool.

I'm sure I can get a pass for an evening.