Be careful!
- Thread starter Fin
- Start date
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Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
I use a leatherman every day at work. It sits on my belt whether I'm in the woods in the car or buying my dinner at tescos. I see it as a tool, not a weapon and I'll be buggered if I'll be threading it on and off my belt all day to appease some numpty who's been conditioned into seeing anything sharp as a weapon... the law has finally gone mad
makes you wonder weather we are in a free coountry or the media is distorting everything for a hidden agenda or just to sell papers
a non lockable fold down pen knife(the average size of a swiss army knife) as far as i know and can find out is perfectly legal to carry .
think you are right the mail is not telling us everything
suprised the article didnt end with something about diana
i had a leatherman but i sold it as 1 i never actually used it and 2. its blades were lockable therefore could put me in a tricky position if i stepped out of my house with it.
whether the law is daft or not getting a conviction for something like holding a leatherman will read something like possesion of concealed weapon - and your have fun explaining that one to every interview you ever go to after.
ive met and known people over the years who have been convicted for these kind of mina offences they all say the hassle they have had ever since from police checks has been mind numbingly tedious as the crime is listed under the offence that the conviction was made - there is no context on a police check
having a record saying you were in possesion of a concealed weapon or offencive weapon could mean you had a small lock knife safely stored away in a pocket or was running around weilding a huge sword
i know it sucks
a non lockable fold down pen knife(the average size of a swiss army knife) as far as i know and can find out is perfectly legal to carry .
think you are right the mail is not telling us everything
suprised the article didnt end with something about diana
i had a leatherman but i sold it as 1 i never actually used it and 2. its blades were lockable therefore could put me in a tricky position if i stepped out of my house with it.
whether the law is daft or not getting a conviction for something like holding a leatherman will read something like possesion of concealed weapon - and your have fun explaining that one to every interview you ever go to after.
ive met and known people over the years who have been convicted for these kind of mina offences they all say the hassle they have had ever since from police checks has been mind numbingly tedious as the crime is listed under the offence that the conviction was made - there is no context on a police check
having a record saying you were in possesion of a concealed weapon or offencive weapon could mean you had a small lock knife safely stored away in a pocket or was running around weilding a huge sword
i know it sucks
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Of course what the article does not say is whether the blade is over 3 inches or if it is a locker because if not he needed no reason to carry it.
I usually carry in the back of my 4WD in a locking box enough equipment for camping including a fixed blade chopper and folding shovel, never mind the standard tools I have in my tool kit.
I would suppose that even in central London it would be sufficient reason for a defence that I were on my way to a lawful place where I could camp that evening, notwithstanding that none of the equipment was ready to hand in case of an affray. - that is what wheelbraces are for
Anyway I can't imagine why the policeman would search the car unless the pensioner were being a bit belligerent. I have been stopped with good cause before with all that junk in the back and not had the car searched.
I usually carry in the back of my 4WD in a locking box enough equipment for camping including a fixed blade chopper and folding shovel, never mind the standard tools I have in my tool kit.
I would suppose that even in central London it would be sufficient reason for a defence that I were on my way to a lawful place where I could camp that evening, notwithstanding that none of the equipment was ready to hand in case of an affray. - that is what wheelbraces are for
Anyway I can't imagine why the policeman would search the car unless the pensioner were being a bit belligerent. I have been stopped with good cause before with all that junk in the back and not had the car searched.
of course if your a wealthy politician on a fat salary whos accused of fleecing the tax payer over expenses you will receive legal aid....
£22 a month or for the year might be handy to have, never had much bother with the law but would always argue my case.
Its £22 for the year, I joined with friends as a group.
and it's RIGHT on your doorstep Stoo
Covers me also for £10,000,000 whilst involved in any country sports
Don't believe everything you read in the papers chaps
The law is clear on this, it is carrying with malicious intent that is the prosecutable offence.
Trouble is - this kind of carp re-enforces the public perception of knives as inherently bad and ingrains ignorance in not only the public but also the police.
For that to work you need to know you are innocent!
I'm betting the fella in the story had never heard of S.139
I'm betting the fella in the story assumed the policeman had a firm grasp of the law and must be right.
To be honest I'm more interested in the Laguioles one of the commentors mentioned in their reply - only a few euro's in most French supermarkets apparently. I wonder what range they do.
you and me both bro (leatherman) sick of all the s--t. when they get cought with there hand in the till they just pay it back no harm dun,
May be people who have a bad perception of knives ought to be banned from touching ANY knives , then either starvation or a life spent eating ready meals might wake them up to the fact that there are many legitimate uses for them, and just because a very small minority abuse them it shouldn't prevent lawful and proper use by everyone else.
Maybe we should ban their cars as well !!!!
To be honest I'm more interested in the Laguioles one of the commentors mentioned in their reply - only a few euro's in most French supermarkets apparently. I wonder what range they do.
I like your thinking
MB
Never admit guilt at all - EVER!
(unless SWMBO catches you walking across the white carpet in you work boots)
That sounds like a damn good policy. Please, can you give us any details and where to get it from?
Just a link to website will be fine!
Just a link to website will be fine!
Absolutely right. Plead guilty, then there's no real trial. You haven't even given the magistrate the chance to throw the case out! He has to give you a criminal record and some sort of punishment even if he or she thinks the charge is absurd.
Ok Here goes
http://www.sacs.org.uk/
Standard membership is around £30, but form a group and you can get it cheaper.
Any questions just PM me
I asked Ian Clarke (director) what would happen if I was stopped whilst going shooting and found with a knife
His reply was
Firstly, of course your SACS insurance will cover you - we would provide an expert solicitor or QC to defend you at no cost to you.
He then went on to say
As you know, we have been caught up in knee-jerk political stuff with carrying knives - the law is designed (badly) to affect knife-carrying thugs in shopping centres, not legitimate users.
The point we all need to be careful about is that the law makes it an offence to carry a knife in a public place without good reason or excuse.
It is a perfectly good reason or excuse to have a knife in your possession for the purpose of gralloching etc. but ONLY when you are going to be using it. The significance of this is that if you are going out stalking, it is reasonable to have the knife with you from the point you leave the house to the moment you get home - that would include the travelling to and from, even if you happen to stop off at a shop on the way, but NOT at other times.
There has already been a case where someone kept a knife in their shooting jacket pocket, and kept the jacket permanently in the boot of their car - as so many of us would. Under Scots law at least, and I believe that this would apply elsewhere too, something in a car in a public place is itself in a public place, and they were convicted.
The Sheriff who tried the case said that it was stupid, but he had no option but to find the accused guilty because the fact that he used the knife regularly was not a reason or excuse for having the knife with him except when he was actually engaged in the activity for which he needed the knife.
When this happened, I got our legal advisor to do an article for the magazine to alert our members - I've copied the text below. i f there's anything else i can do, just let me know.
Best regards
Ian
The other topic I have been asked to cover is the law (in Scotland) regarding carrying of knives.
The law was, for 40 years, governed by the Prevention of Crime Act 1953(c14) which extends, as it is still in force, to England, Wales and Scotland but does not extend to Northern Ireland. It is a commendably brief Act and is to the effect that any person who has with him without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, (the proof whereof shall lie on him) in a public place any offensive weapon shall be guilty of an offence.
"Offensive weapon" is helpfully defined as "any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to a person or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him".
"Public place" is defined as any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access whether on payment or otherwise. You should be particularly aware that if a car or other vehicle, whether that vehicle is moving or stationary, locked or not, is "in a public place", any items such as knives and firearms inside the vehicle are also "in a public place".
The relevance of this Act to the carrying of knives is that some knives will come into the category of made for causing injury (e.g. bayonet, stiletto, flick, sword etc.,) and all other knives may come under one or other of the remaining two categories, depending on the circumstances.
Difficulties arose over the years in enforcing the Act, and eventually the Carrying of Knives etc. (Scotland) Act 1993 (c13. was passed. Under the terms of this Act, it is a criminal offence to have with you in a public place any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed. There are defences, slightly different from the earlier Act, namely "good reason or lawful authority" and some examples of what would be considered good reason are given in the Act. The definition of "public place" has lost the words any highway, as "highway" is a peculiarly English legal concept.
There is an exception in the Act for a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 3 inches". Care must be taken with this definition, as it has been interpreted by the Court as excluding a lock knife, whatever the size of its blade, although, if the lock is broken on a knife which was originally a lock knife, so that it can be closed just by pressing on the back of the blade, it may, subject to the cutting edge measurement, be considered to be a folding pocket knife - the test is whether you can close it by one action of pressing on the back of the blade.
There is one knife which may be worth mentioning as being arguably within the definition of a folding pocket knife as mentioned above, although capable of being locked open. Having cut myself on a folding knife more than once, I obtained an "Opinel" which has a collar which you can rotate when the knife is open, but which can be opened and closed without engaging the lock mechanism.
For reasons unknown to me, it was found necessary to further legislate on the matter, and so we have the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995(c.39) Sections 47 and 49 of this Act seem to me to merely restate the law as it exists both in relation to offensive weapons (S.47) and knives(S.49).
Remember its not a licence to be flippant, but you will be defended if you are within the law and maliciously or illegal prosecuted.
Will also cover all your field sport activities too, even yer dog if he runs into the road and causes a crunch.
Its the best one out there and one of the cheapest too, I think its the only one that gives the immediate £100k legal protection, BASC certainly does not.
Please note that some of the points made out by the barrister apply to Scotland, buy I don't think that there is that much difference in the general law.
i must say that this link: https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q337.htm
is pretty good for the general jist of what you can and cannot carry.
when travelling to woodland or where i'm camping for safety i keep my knives in my pack, fixed and folding/locking. if i get stopped and searched i just pull out my OS map and show them where i'm going and obviously i'm camping.
same for work days with the BTCV i use my locking knife as its safer then a folder, i don't remove it from my pack till i'm at the site and although a public space is being used with good justification.
tis all very silly this law business, hell i've walked through city centres with my M4 (airsoft) in its case and never once got stopped and i was wearing full camo to boot!
silly laws eh?
is pretty good for the general jist of what you can and cannot carry.
when travelling to woodland or where i'm camping for safety i keep my knives in my pack, fixed and folding/locking. if i get stopped and searched i just pull out my OS map and show them where i'm going and obviously i'm camping.
same for work days with the BTCV i use my locking knife as its safer then a folder, i don't remove it from my pack till i'm at the site and although a public space is being used with good justification.
tis all very silly this law business, hell i've walked through city centres with my M4 (airsoft) in its case and never once got stopped and i was wearing full camo to boot!
silly laws eh?
