BANNING OFFENSIVE WEAPONS – A CONSULTATION Home Office Consultation

[P Wren]

It may be possible that some of you who collect knives may also collect swords or other bladed tools. If so you might be interested in a consultation paper published today which specifically relates to Samurai Swords.

The Home Office has published a consultation paper today entitled “Banning offensive weapons – a consultation”. The purpose of the paper is to seek views from interested parties on whether certain weapons used in violent crime, in particular “samurai style swords” should be added to the list of offensive weapons in the Criminal Justice Act 1988(Offensive Weapons) Order 1988.
This consultation document sets out the options for including further weapons to the Offensive Weapons Order. The document seeks views on these options by close of 28 May 2007.

You can read the full consultation at: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-ban-offensive-weapons-0307

I am not a member of British Blades so it might be a kindness for a joint members from here to inform members at British Blades who might also have an interest.

Kind regards
Paul W

 

[Tengu]

I have great difficulty in seeing how they could get away with this; The To Ken society is mostly respectable and influencial people

Im sure they will welcome something that will stem the flow of fakes from China...

 

[Tengu]

Nothing as yet, but they are pretty moribund...

http://www.to-ken.com/

 

[Butchd]

You'd be surprised what they get away with. This is merely the latest of the Governments headline grabbing but pointless pieces of legislation where they seek to ban things that appear 'dangerous' to the uniformed public, especially when people who see a chance at a little fame get in on the act and spout inflamatory rubbish about the dangers to women and children. The only people who will be inconvenienced are those innocent users, there are plenty of other pieces of legislation in place already that would cover this, and do you really think it would stop a criminal from owning one?

 

[British Red]

I have great difficulty in seeing how they could get away with this; The To Ken society is mostly respectable and influencial people

Im sure they will welcome something that will stem the flow of fakes from China...

Really?

A million people marched for the Countryside Alliance. Will more than that march for martial arts?

The Handgun ban hasn't been repealed despite a rise in gun crime (perpetrated by illegally held guns).

I won't go on as this forum is not about politics. I'll quote a poem instead by Niemöller - an early supporter of Hitler who came later to realise what totalitarianism meant. A version of his beautiful poem is inscribed on the Boston holocaust memorial

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Red

 

[Heathenpeddler]

do you really think it would stop a criminal from owning one?

Nope, they will be the beneficiaries of this as law-abiding people sell theirs. Who exactly do you think will buy them? Not everyone will want to toss them in an amnesty box.

Guns are illegal, gun crime is rife. Fixed blades are illegal, knife crime is rife. Do you know anyone who carries a sword through town? No, it's only the criminals who would want to carry a large live blade like a katana through town.

The big thing these days is to legislate against anything that causes a problem, creating criminals out of the innocent. This makes things worse not better, tying up resources the police need to actually tackl;e the original problem.

</rant off>

 

[tomtom]

I won't go on as this forum is not about politics.

Thanks Red, I would ask that everyone keep this in mind when replying to this thread.

Cheers
TT

 

[moocher]

what makes me laugh is most of the little darlings carry kitchen knives so how do the goverment propose to combat that.?

 

[MagiKelly]

I got involved in the consultation for Scotland which included a suggestion of needing a licence to sell knifes. The overwhelming result of the consultation was against the plans. Including submissions fro the Society of Advocates (the Scottish equivalent of QCs). Still they are going ahead with the plans

 

[FGYT]

Thanks Red, I would ask that everyone keep this in mind when replying to this thread.

Cheers
TT

its a Political Thread
and as a Samurai Sword ist Bushcraft then ..........


ATB

Duncan

 

[Butchd]

Ooops yes, sorry, these things irritate me since I've seen it before. Someone comes across something that they think will make them look good, the Home Office produces a consultation which is biased without any attempt to be otherwise, and then they ignore all the objections and only quote the people who agree when they produce the write up.

Edit: The relevence to bushcraft is that the other thing the government does is to bring these things in in increments. First it was the carrying of fixed blades, now it's the owning of certain types of blades. Next you can expect to see that expanded to the owning of all banned blades - after all if it's not legal to carry them, why would anyone need to own them? Each step is perfectly logical and apparently reasonable to the man in the street who isn't aware of the facts. It's only after you are a few steps down the road that you realise just how much has been taken.

 

[Goose]

its a Political Thread
and as a Samurai Sword ist Bushcraft then ..........


ATB

Duncan

You are right, but what is a samurai sword ...legally?
If it becomes a banned item, how do they define the difference between a samurai sword or any other sword?
How do you define the difference between a sword and a knife?
They could use length to differentiate between swords and fixed blade knives, what length would they set?
Would it include parangs, machettes or billhooks?

So although I completely agree that samurai swords have nothing to do with bushcraft, the fact that another law may be brought in to make things "more" illegal WILL affect bushcrafters!
The laws are already in place to stop illegal activity, but again, to be seen to be doing something "they" are making something more illegal rather than enforcing laws that are already in place.


And yes the thread is political, but I have faith in the mod team to keep an eye on it to keep it friendly.

 

[Bushcraft4life]

The reason the goverment is focusing this primarily on katanas is because they are cheap, easy to buy more than any other sword and very light which makes using them for criminal activity easier than say a broadsword or something similar. It was also published a few years back that in citys such as manchester and leeds katanas were becoming increasingly popular as a weapon choice and a status symbol.

 

[Butchd]

<nods> as I say, they pick an easy target. And for anyone who thinks it doesn't matter or it won't happen, there is another consultation out there on it's second draft which proposes a three year jail term for owning a photograph of something that isn't even illegal. I have no interest in owning a sword, but I am concerned about the precedent it sets.

 

[weaver]

The laws are already in place to stop illegal activity, but again, to be seen to be doing something "they" are making something more illegal rather than enforcing laws that are already in place.

This is exactly why we keep fighting gun control in the USA. It does nothing except to punish law abiding citizens.

 

[Tengu]

I think they have been watching too many silly martial arts flicks.

And what will they do about a certain person I know who has a shop off Pall Mall, a very discrete one, you wouldnt know was there unless you knew him. (and what a nightmare it was even finding the place) and you dont get in without an invite.

Small wonder, as it must contain countless millions worth of medieval european and middle eastern arms and armour.

(he has some japanese, but its not his speciality.)

 

[P Wren]

Dear all,

Just to clarify, by starting this thread here in Bushcraft UK, I didn't want to break any rules by starting or encouraging a political debate or indeed even a massive thread of responses. I recognise that the central issue being consulted on is not particularly relevant to bushcraft.

As well as being very keen on Bushcraft and camping, I'm also a sculptor, and also a registered Fencing Coach that runs two Clubs. I have also studied Kendo and Iaido.

I simply wanted to make sure any members here, who may have a similar spread of interests like knife/sword collectors, who perhaps find themselves affected by this paper, were notified.

Kind regards

P

 

[Butchd]

Being one of the main culprits in leading this into areas it shouldn't go, that would be my fault not yours, but my opinion, as you'll have noted above is that it is very relevant to bushcraft.

 

[Minotaur]

The people you think are going to care about this don't!

I agree with almost everything that has been said.

This is going to be another pointless piece of law.

This is not going to effect serious sword collectors or martial artists.

The weird thing is what are they actual going to do this time?

The problem for this forum might come from them banning a certain length, like anything over 12".

Just as a point, the reason the gun ban is a waste of time, is because the guns still being used were illigal before the ban. Anyone would think criminals were using them.

 

[mrostov]

It sounds like there are some people over on that side of the pond that will never rest until everyone in the UK is required by law to be coated in a thick layer of spongy foam, armed only with toothbrushes.