Home Office announces plans for Offensive Weapons Bill

[madra]

I think you're missing my point. .... etc. etc.

I have no problem with people expressing their opinions but I take exception to unfounded prejudicial statements.

You have a problem with me saying "I think you're missing my point" –note the use of "I think..." at the beginning which makes it patently obvious that it's a conjecture, not a statement. But you seemingly have no problem with:

My point is that your point misses the point.

–-statement
or

You're arguing from a point of ignorance...

--statement

Hmmm... nice bit of unbiased commentary there

 

[Broch]

You have a problem with me saying "I think you're missing my point" –note the use of "I think..." at the beginning which makes it patently obvious that it's a conjecture, not a statement. But you seemingly have no problem with:

No, I take exception to the prejudicial statement later in your post - I wasn't prepared to repeat it.

 

[Kepis]

Has anybody actually seen the proposed legislation yet, all I've found is the statement from the Home Office with no detail, until the full details are known it's all conjecture and heresay.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

Has anybody actually seen the proposed legislation yet, all I've found is the statement from the Home Office with no detail, until the full details are known it's all conjecture and heresay.

If you go back to post #12 in this thread (page 1) I posted a link to the consultation document which outlines what the proposals are, the implications and the financial ramifications are all covered.

Make a cup of tea and get comfortable - 97 pages of it.

Only an assumption but as it was (in reality a pre-decided) consultation I would expect the proposed legislation to closely mirror the consultation document.

 

[Kepis]

If you go back to post #12 in this thread (page 1) I posted a link to the consultation document which outlines what the proposals are, the implications and the financial ramifications are all covered.

Make a cup of tea and get comfortable - 97 pages of it.

Only an assumption but as it was (in reality a pre-decided) consultation I would expect the proposed legislation to closely mirror the consultation document.

I know, i read and responded to the consultation, wrote to my MP, The Home Sec and the Shadow Home Sec.

The consultation documents only relate to the proposals at the time, not the proposed new legislation which is what i referred to, until such time that the white paper has been published and we can actually see what the Govt is proposing any talk about this being banned and that being banned is pure conjecture as its not based on factual evidence, only, rumour, heresay and conjecture and man alive there are some wild video's on YouTube and some totally losing it on farcebook pages, without knowing what is actually being proposed.

 

[daveO]

***? –you have a problem with me saying "I think you're missing my point" –note the use of "I think..." at the beginning which makes it patently obvious that it's a conjecture, not a statement. But you seemingly have no problem with:

–-statement
or
--statement

Hmmm... nice bit of unbiased commentary there

What was wrong with what I said? The points you made are incorrect in this context and you haven't read the proposals so you are ignorant of the facts involved. Do a bit of reading, take an unbiased look at the proposals and come back if you feel you can contribute anything constructive.

For what it's worth I got quite a shock when I moved from a small rural village to a rough area of Cardiff at age 18. The local kids were a big problem even if it was mostly petty crime. Over the years I got to know a lot of them and when I was working on my car some of them would hang about just as something to do and I'd let some of them help out or even lend them some old tools to do work on their own stuff (never got some of them back though, they were still theaving little sods). A lot of those kids ended up in trouble with the police but one kid turned up one day in his new overalls having got an apprenticeship with a garage and we stripped a gearbox out of a car while he told me the stuff he was learning. A lot of people on here will have worked with inner city kids at some point and they'll tell you that giving them a way out of the circle of crime and gang culture is better than locking them up. Most of these kids don't know any other life and can't see opportunity to improve themselves. You won't solve the problems by locking up generation after generation of people and hoping that the problem eventually goes away.

 

[Kepis]

This may have been covered elsewhere and ive not seen it, but, the proposed new legislation covers online sales, what about offline, you know, good old fashioned mail order? I would imagine its under the same set of rules, but ive personally not seen any mention of it anywhere, or have and not inwardly digested it, ie senior moment

 

[Janne]

People still buy by Mail Order?

 

[Kepis]

People buy still Mail Order?

I do from one of my suppliers, proper old fashioned family run company, with excellent service.

 

[daveO]

This may have been covered elsewhere and ive not seen it, but, the proposed new legislation covers online sales, what about offline, you know, good old fashioned mail order? I would imagine its under the same set of rules, but ive personally not seen any mention of it anywhere, or have and not inwardly digested it, ie senior moment

It was buried in the consultation documents somewhere:

"We are also considering whether the offences should also apply to catalogue/mail order service sales of knives and to delivery services for knives ordered online from abroad."

 

[Kepis]

It was buried in the consultation documents somewhere:

"We are also considering whether the offences should also apply to catalogue/mail order service sales of knives and to delivery services for knives ordered online from abroad."

Cheers ears, guess we will have to wait and see what the white paper says as they are being very coy about releasing any sort of detail.

 

[daveO]

Cheers ears, guess we will have to wait and see what the white paper says as they are being very coy about releasing any sort of detail.

This has been a common complaint.

http://www.countryside-alliance.org...ponds-to-offensive-weapons-bill-announcement/

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-f...fensive-weapons-bill-will-need-close-scrutiny

 

[Janne]

Which Parliamental Einstein started calling knives aimed at trade and hobby pursuits 'Offensive Weapons", for a start?
The vast number of Mora style knives are trade knife designs.Our 'bushcraft knifes = hobby purpose.

Dog Lead in leater = SM sexual implement?
See my point?

 

[daveO]

Which Governmental started calling knives aimed at trade and hobby pursuits 'Offensive Weapons", for a start?
The vast number of Mora style knives are trade knife designs.Our 'bushcraft knifes = hobby purpose.

Dog Lead in leater = SM sexual implement?
See my point?

"An offensive weapon is a tool made, adapted or intended for the purpose of inflicting mental or physical injury upon another person."

The law has never really been knife specific as once anything is adapted to use as a weapon it becomes 'offensive'. The context of the alleged crime is all important and the onus seems to be on the defendant to prove that they meant no harm with said tool rather than the police to prove that they did. This is where most people have a problem with the way the law is written and applied as it presumes guilt. It's like saying you have a penis, you need to prove you're not a rapist (no exemptions for being 3 inches or less I'm afraid). You can understand why it needs to be applied in this way to prevent crime but it isn't an especially liberal way to deal with it.

 

[Chomp]

What was wrong with what I said? The points you made are incorrect in this context and you haven't read the proposals so you are ignorant of the facts involved. Do a bit of reading, take an unbiased look at the proposals and come back if you feel you can contribute anything constructive.

For what it's worth I got quite a shock when I moved from a small rural village to a rough area of Cardiff at age 18. The local kids were a big problem even if it was mostly petty crime. Over the years I got to know a lot of them and when I was working on my car some of them would hang about just as something to do and I'd let some of them help out or even lend them some old tools to do work on their own stuff (never got some of them back though, they were still theaving little sods). A lot of those kids ended up in trouble with the police but one kid turned up one day in his new overalls having got an apprenticeship with a garage and we stripped a gearbox out of a car while he told me the stuff he was learning. A lot of people on here will have worked with inner city kids at some point and they'll tell you that giving them a way out of the circle of crime and gang culture is better than locking them up. Most of these kids don't know any other life and can't see opportunity to improve themselves. You won't solve the problems by locking up generation after generation of people and hoping that the problem eventually goes away.

This is the problem, an expensive problem at that. I'm far from being an expert on gang culture but if the only option is 'which gang' then we as a society need to be providing another option. No point getting political about it, its a society thing that maybe doesn't affect us all directly but is part of 'our' society. We are always going to have an 'underclass' of some description, every society does but it might be more productive to try and integrate at least some of them than spend a fortune policing them and locking them up.

Having said that, I do enjoy slipping into 'gangsta' in conversation, nothing says 'da street' more than a fat middle aged white guy. Word.

 

[Janne]

DaveO, I just wanted to make a point.

ALL states are doing tricks like this, 'for the benefit of the majority".