Ban on crossbows

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mrostov

Nomad
Jan 2, 2006
410
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Texas
Second Lateran Council under Pope Innocent II in 1139 banned the use of crossbows, as well as slings and bows, against Christians.

Golly, that worked out well, didn't it.........

One of these days the UK will demand that all of you get spray coated in a thick layer of foam rubber so there is no way at all for anyone to get bruised or scratched, for your own good, of course.
 

Chomp

Tenderfoot
Jan 17, 2018
90
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Round the back skivving
It matters not the things they ban are not hard to make, I think there scared and don't know what to do, so they just ban things thinking it has resolved a problem.
Aye, it boils my wee when politicians take the easy (and often emotive/pandering) approach. You can never fully remove risk, you can try and limit it which makes sense but we have to accept that **** can and does happen. The example I use when discussing this is the plane crash in the Swiss mountains a few years back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

The crew couldn't access the cockpit because of the measures put in place after 9/11, it just flags up the impossibility of making things a 100% safe. A 100% should always be the target but with the knowledge we'll never meet it.
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
3,365
2,558
Mid Wales
Sorry guys (and gals) but I agree with licensing cars, licensing shotguns, licensing firearms, and I agree with licensing any projectile weapon that has the energy to kill at the range most easily accessible cross bows can.

OK, there are many low energy projectile weapons that could kill (an air rifle or a catapult even) but the probability is low; the cross bows that are easily available without licence are potentially deadly. I am happy to jump through the hoops I do to maintain my FAC. If anyone is genuinely interested in using these tools they should not be too bothered about a few formalities to do so.

And please, let's not start a 'cross Atlantic' discussion on firearms - I am very happy, as a gun user, with the laws in the UK.
 
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Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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In my experience, licensing works well. If you are a sane, law abiding citizen, you do not have any problems getting a permit for an item you have a need for.

Are there crossbow shooting clubs in UK?

.
 

Chomp

Tenderfoot
Jan 17, 2018
90
46
52
Round the back skivving
Sorry guys (and gals) but I agree with licensing cars, licensing shotguns, licensing firearms, and I agree with licensing any projectile weapon that has the energy to kill at the range most easily accessible cross bows can.

OK, there are many low energy projectile weapons that could kill (an air rifle or a catapult even) but the probability is low; the cross bows that are easily available without license are potentially deadly. I am happy to jump through the hoops I do to maintain my FAC. If anyone is genuinely interested in using these tools they should not be too bothered about a few formalities to do so.

And please, let's not start a 'cross Atlantic' discussion on firearms - I am very happy, as a gun user, with the laws in the UK.
I get where you're coming from, the problem is that it spills over to other parts of our life too. I'm not going to get too political but I would guess most of us have experienced or are aware of things that have become politicised to pander to us plebs. In the example I used earlier about kids being allowed drive before being able to choose whether to smoke, the stats (I know, I know) suggest that young male drivers are more likely to be involved in fatal driving accidents yet there doesn't appear to be any measures to deal with this, it would certainly be more unpopular with the masses than banning (or having to register) crossbows. It would most likely save more lives though.

I'm using crossbows as an example as this is what the thread is about and if we had a big issue with crossbows being used in crime I could understand it but if we're looking at saving lives or public safety then it would be way down the list of issues. I do get why crossbows could be seen as a potential issue, living in Scotland I've had to pay to register my air rifle, its rarely used and certainly not recklessly and as they're still freely available (especially south of the border) only makes a difference to those who are willing to play by the rules.

Apologies for veering off piste a tad.
 

bobnewboy

Settler
Jul 2, 2014
893
304
North West Somerset
In my experience, licensing works well. If you are a sane, law abiding citizen, you do not have any problems getting a permit for an item you have a need for.

Are there crossbow shooting clubs in UK?

.
Most National Field Archery Society clubs in the UK support crossbow shooting as a competitive class. I can’t say it particularly interests me as an archer, but I suppose I might shoot one if I had a shoulder injury which precluded shooting bows any more.

I suppose I should add that I made a pistol crossbow while at secondary school, as that kind of thing was allowed in the late ‘70s :) I still have it, and it still shoots, but it doesn’t come out much as it doesn’t reach the equipment safety rules for the NFAS. Since such things are unregistered I can’t see how licensing would help for those already in circulation.

Cheers, Bob
 
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gonzo_the_great

Forager
Nov 17, 2014
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Poole, Dorset. UK
Air-gun licencing is probably going to happen in the UK. they have it in Scotland already, and the government uses Scotland as a testing ground for new ideas. So they may mop up a few other things, like cross-bows, in a similar way.

But as usual, the politicians concentrate on the thing, not the person.
 

mrostov

Nomad
Jan 2, 2006
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Texas
In English speaking nations (UK, Canada, Australia, various US states like California) what has been obvious is that laws disarming the common people are usually a placebo for the people to feel safe in an atmosphere of failed social policies by governments unwilling to face the real problems.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Canada, Australia and UK like most of the world, have NOT 'disarmed' people, be it common or uncommon people.
A gun permit/ license system is in place. Makes sure the firearms/crossbows, whatever, are not easily or legally obtainable by nutcases.

The only civilized country with a handgun ban is UK, the rest of the countries they are fully legal.

If a crossbow will need a permit in UK - big deal. Join a club of like minded, get the permit, practice, compete.....
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
8,378
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McBride, BC
I can waltz into a Canadian gun shop and buy what ever rifle, long bow, cross bow or shotgun I can afford and walk out with it.
I elected (good word) not to bother to get a hand gun endorsement on my current Possession and Acquisition Licence ("PAL").
That, I need for rifles and shotguns (maybe powder and primers, too, if I was reloading. Not sure.)

There's no UK ban on handguns that I know of. Correct me if this is not so.
Lots of UK men and women are competing in top level pistol events all over the planet.
They all must have gotten a start in one club or another.

Adding licences for long bows and cross bows would be just another bug splat on the windscreen of your life.
You just jump through the hoop and move on. Nothing tricky about it.
I am quite surprised that it hasn't happened here nor is there anything on the horizon.
 

Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Handguns have been banned in UK since just after the tragic Dunblane masshooting.
Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Cayman Islands and other 'associate' parts of UK do not have a handgun ban, but a permit system.

UK handgun competitive shooters are virtually extinct, some practice and train outside in France or Channel Islands.

(I am not 100% which Channel Islands and other British areas allow handguns)
 

mrostov

Nomad
Jan 2, 2006
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Texas
If the government has the ability to say, at a whim, "We know you have this weapon, now surrender it." Then you are not truly armed. You have simply paid a lot of money to buy the government a firearm which they let you borrow at their discretion.

Even Lenin once stated that gun registration's only functional purpose was to allow for gun confiscation.
 
Jan 13, 2018
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Rural Lincolnshire
Handguns have been banned in UK since just after the tragic Dunblane masshooting.
Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Cayman Islands and other 'associate' parts of UK do not have a handgun ban, but a permit system.

UK handgun competitive shooters are virtually extinct, some practice and train outside in France or Channel Islands.

(I am not 100% which Channel Islands and other British areas allow handguns)
The UK Olympic pistol shooters went to Switzerland to practice - no exemptions even for Olympians !!!.

From the Home Office Guidance to Police Authorities

Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be
successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));
ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22
rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));
iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than
60 centimetres in length overall,
other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a
firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba));
iv) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or
chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in
length or is less than 40 inches in length overall (section 5(1)(ac));
v) any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rimfire

cartridges or a muzzle-loading revolver gun (section 5(1)(ad));

At our shooting club there are users of .22rf target pistols with 'HUGE' long barrels (must be over 12") and counter-balance 'weights' that reach virtually from wrist to elbow - they do look awkward.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
My wife and me, both competitive shooters, used CO2 pistols in UK. High precision stuff.

It was a relief to move to the Cayman Islands, join the club, and start shooting again with proper guns, in proper disciplines!

I received my latest buy, a Ruger GP100 MC two days go.
Will break it in tomorrow! Then I will start the rebuilding to make it as I want it.
 

Artic Bob

Member
Feb 1, 2018
39
24
Marches
i have no problem whatsoever with Crossbows being licened, infact i'd quite like to see them banned - this is because i see, on a fairly regular basis, what happens when some idiot with a crossbow tries to poach some Deer.

overwhelmingly they miss - fine, but where does the bolt go?

the evidence here - in Wyre Forest, Mortimer Forest, and Forest of Dean - suggests that very few poachers using a crossbow achieve a clean, or fairly clean, kill. we (forestry commission, deer management group, local landowners and farmers, and the wider community who use these forests) find several deer every month who have been injured with crossbow bolts but not killed - or in a case this year, where a deer that had a leg broken with a very visible crossbow bolt collapsed infront of a forestry worker and when it was examined and euthanised by a vet, the animal was so emaciated that the vet thought it had been hobbling about for perhaps 20 days after being shot.

we also have poachers trying to poach Deer with shotguns and dogs - and even vehicles.

broadly, the people who think they can toddle off to the woods of an evening and fill up the freezer haven't the wit that God gave a Sheep, no skill at shooting and less concern for the welfare of their quarry than a rapist...
 
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