Attitudes Concerning Rescue

[pierre girard]

Read an article on an Alaskan rescue:

I was especially taken with this quote:

"The ethic of self-sufficiency is fading, increasingly replaced by a dependence on rescue. There was a time in the West when getting rescued was about the worst embarrassment that could happen to an outdoorsman or woman. "

I fear I'm old enough to fit in that category, and would probably hide from searchers if I had anything short of a broken leg.

For the full story, check here:

http://www.adn.com/outdoors/craig_medred/story/7703863p-7614798c.html

 

[PurpleHeath]

wow, interesting story but you do have to remember that probably many more people would have died if they had been strubborn and not called for help.

i suppose the ethic of self- suffciency is fading because mountains are more acessable than they were a few years ago and as more people use them, are not as knowlegdable about them as before. and of course a few years ago you couldn't rely apon the rescue teams because they didn't any fancy equipment, like helicotpers.

but yeah, it's scary what some people define as needing to be rescued!

 

[falling rain]

I agree Pierre. I think a lot of people go out into the hills and wilderness thinking it's a fun day(s) out which it definately should be. Unfortunately they go out un-prepared for dramatic changes in weather or an un-planned night out or medical situation and that's when the trouble starts. Some people just don't get the word about being prepared. There was an article about some Thai (I think) tourists in the lake district recently. They went walking in the hills in summer gear (it started as anice day) training shoes and were pulling wheeled suitcases along behind them. The weather came down and they had to be rescued. I suppose to give them a little credit they were foreign and were probably unaware of how rapidly the British weather can degenerate. There is also the pressure of people having planned a day out to escape from the stresses of life, and they may have been planning their trip for a long time and they are going to jolly well complete it whatever happens!! Things turn bad, but they press on regardless and then things can quickly spiral out of control and they need to be rescued. When the weather comes down if you havn't got the right gear with you, you need to know when to call it a day and abort the trip. The hills ain't going anywhere and will be there next time.
I've mentioned the book before on this forum but 'Deep Survival' - Laurence Gonzales is a fascinating read on what makes people take dangerous risks and the psychology behind it all. Very interesting book.
It's a subject that interests me and I could go on writng but I need to do some work or I'll be in need of rescue myself

 

[falling rain]

Found the link about that rescue of the Thai tourists http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/4885556.stm

 

[redcollective]

The Thai incident was Langdale MRT's area http://www.lamrt.org.uk/

Mountain rescue incident reports make an interesting read (and show how busy they are) AND offer the unprepared a glimmer of advice throughout:

* Your posh wellies are useless on ice.
* If you report yourself lost don't get found in the pub afterwoods
* Suitcases may be an encumberance - even those with wheels!
* Being tired and having acheing footsies is no excuse
* Ensure your battery powered shop-mobility cart has an adequate turning circle - some mountain paths are terribly narrow you know.

I have great admiration for these Mountain Rescue teams - it's nice to know they are around even though I'd be dreadfullly embarassed if I ever had to call them.

 

[ilan]

The problem is that its just so easy to get into an enviroment you do not know (Though these people were local ) This was brought home to on a visit to the Orkneys when i arrived the van i was going to use was at the airport the ignition key was glued into the ignition (Just in case someone needed to move it !! ) and it the back was a survival kit as a breakdown could mean a 10- mile walk in 100mph winds and horizontal rain or worse ! equally the couple i was staying with were debating if they should lock the front door when they went on holiday for two weeks and could they find the key anyway?? . Both of us would have difficulties in surviving in each home environment . Think London would have scared this couple and certainly someone would permantly moved the van lol

 

[Ogri the trog]

Yup,
It's the top of a long sad slope.
With the emergence of portable technology that allows instant communication, comes the reliance on that as a means of getting out of any trouble. I'll not condemn the use of mobile phones as an "aid" to safety, but when they can be used to launch multi-million dollar organisations into action just because you've got a headache, the situation starts to go bad.
I really think that unnecessary rescues ought to be charged to the caller, though how it would be monitored is way beyond me, perhaps some kind of mountaineering insurance (god forbid).
When I was learning my mountaineering, we had to plan and produce route cards that were then logged with several agencies, and a rescue would only be initiated if a check point was missed by several hours, that or one was called in by a member of the party who would have had to summon help from the mountainside, "sans" technology. At the end of the successful trek, the cards would be collected or it would be arranged for their destruction.

Ranting now - I'll go and do something else for a while.

Ogri the trog

 

[Abbe Osram]

Many young people are not after the wilderness and nature experience but the
kick they get out doing some kind of sport thing.
This boys where out for the snowboarding gig.
Here in our place they are raching around on snowmaschines, doing crazy stuff.
A month ago one 17 years old died under a avalanche his buddies produced as they where trying to film some snowmaschine stunts in the "fjälls". The movies should have been for the internet to watch.

These kind of people dont have much love for nature but the other stuff they do therefore they dont learn to get to know the wilderness. They want to get in easy and get out easy doing their thing. I dont believe they lost the boot, but dumped it themselves so they would get a ride back home. I find it important that people who make a mistake are brave enough to call for help, whats good on being a dead hero. But lazy people are using the system and it looks like these boys where that kind.

cheers
Abbe

 

[PhilParry]

It can't be any worse than a group of walkers calling mountain rescue out for a "lift" in their helicopter up in the lakes recently.

Why?

Because they were tired and their car was miles away!!!! :yikes:

:aargh4:

Just goes to show you!

Phil

 

[Nemisis]

That sounds as bad as the one I read about a couple of years ago a man called mountain rescue on his mobile asking them to bring a can of coke as his wife was thirsty.
Dave.

 

[Wayne]

There are plenty of people going out into the great outdoors that have little respect for the environment.

It is hard to beleive that these people are in the same gene pool as the rest of us.

Calling the rescue services is an admission that events have gone beyond your control and extra resources are need to save life.

 

[BorderReiver]

It can't be any worse than a group of walkers calling mountain rescue out for a "lift" in their helicopter up in the lakes recently.

Why?

Because they were tired and their car was miles away!!!! :yikes:


Phil

I would give them a lift....

up to about 5,000 feet,then push the b$&*"@$s out :twak:

 

[mark a.]

Is it a new phenomenon? It's hard to say - we hear lots of these stories of lazy and stupid people because modern media makes it possible to distribute the tales far and wide very quickly. I reckon there were plenty of such people about in years go by too, but they just died without all the fuss of getting volunteer mountain rescue services involved.

Perhaps a 100 years ago instead of ringing up on their mobiles they'd just send their servant back to pick up their carriage or to go and get another wooly jumper. Or just turn up at a peasant's cottage and demand to be wined and dined and beds supplied until the weather passes or whatever.

In fact, Jerome K Jerome's "Three Men in a Boat" has a few stories where they fail to plan ahead and get people running around for them to try and find them a place to stay for the night.

I'm not condoning the actions of the people mentioned here in this thread, but I just think it's nothing new.

 

[Doc]

I don't think it is a new phenomenon - Jack London wrote at least one short story about rather 'inadequate' people not coping with the wilderness.

The difference is the technology makes it very easy to summon help.

Here is an interesting story about the first and second use of personal locator beacons - unfortunately both on the same person. I had previously raised this story but the original link doesn't work, so here's another:


http://viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17309&postcount=1

 

[EdS]

think it is a combination of "wilds" are easier to get to and more people in general so more are heading there.

There are a lot of people how do not do personal responsibility and expect ohthers to sort things out for them.

There will always be genuine accidents involving the prepared / experienced that require a rescue - these people would also go and help others to.

 

[gregorach]

I've only had one experience where I thought I might've needed rescuing. We'd gone for what was supposed to be an easy winter walk, so decided to leave ropes, harnesses, etc back in the car, then we'd gone off-route and ended up on a much more challenging section with no safe way of backing out... I distinctly rember been unsure as to which I was more afraid of - spending a very under-equiped night on the shoulder of Bidean nam Bian in winter, or the ignominy of being rescued from such a stupid predicament.

Fortunately, we made it off the mountain under our own steam. My, was that a fine night in the pub!

 

[wingstoo]

Some years ago myself and my wife went up Pen-y-fan, had wet/warm gear with us as we knew that the weather in Wales can change so quickly. Glorious sunny day on the way up and at the summit, but within a few minutes the weather at the summit started to close in, so back down we went, well wrapped against the cold and wet that was no around us.

As we were descending to the carpark we were watching other folks going up wearing just T shirts, shorts and trainers, and they were giving us funny looks!

LS

 

[Woods Wanderer]

my dad thinks im too stubborn hes seen people dye in the hills
i cant imagine calling mountain rescue instead i try to PLAN AHEAD keep an eye on every possable place to shelter and just keep the brain active its to easy tro slip into ato pilot,
saying that up in the breacons with timm and the rest i allowed all my kit to get wet, to soft used to the woods thats my exuse
just remember we evolved with a bigger brain than the sheep that dy all the time
sorry about the spelling

 

[BorderReiver]

A few years ago we were on top of Helvelyn in thick cloud,hardly see your own feet sort of thing.

A young chap appeared out of the gloom and asked if we were near the top.He then asked if we could tell him the way to get down.

No map,no compass,no brain.

He disappeared back into the cloud.I suppose he survived.

 

[baggins]

To add my own little anecdote!
When i was teaching ice climbing and guiding on the Franz Josef glacier in NZ, we (the guides) frequently had to escort people down off the ice after they clambered up the steps and rope lines that we layed each day for paying customers. The array of footwear was alomst worthy of a comedy series; from wellies to stiletos (yup!). In the time i was there i had to help countless idiots who ignored all the warming signs (ours and the dept of conservation) down and also 3 bodies in 18months.
I even had one lady (a European) who complained that it was too slippery and why didn't we put salt down
I have the utmost respect for all mountain rescue personel and am terrified of the day i need to call them or, even worse, have to go through a certification course every time i head for the hills.
We all make mistakes, some we can live with but others...
But on that fateful day i do need them, i'd rather know they were out helping in a real emergency and not just a couple of lazy ski bums.
C'est la vie!!!