Are we all enjoying the low fuel costs

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British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,737
1,988
Mercia
May I ask how it is you dont have a mortgage, or have not needed to go to college, and how this is applicable to everybody ,I can avoid doing these things yet live a life free from poverty or servitude? ( I want to retire some day , I do hope you can work that into the equation)

Of course you can. I don't have a mortgage because I rent my house. I would love to own my own home, but we have to travel all over the country to ensure we can get work. I didn't go to college because I couldn't afford to and colleges aren't that keen on giving places to the homeless - or at least they weren't then.

I don't consider myself in "poverty or servitude" though. I work hard, am warm, have a roof over my head and have enough to eat.

I am blessed and conent.

Red
 

gunslinger

Nomad
Sep 5, 2008
321
0
69
Devon
Chasing after riches:

A management consultant, on holiday in a African fishing village, watched a little fishing boat dock at the quayside. Noting the quality of the fish, the consultant asked the fisherman how long it had taken to catch them.

"Not very long." answered the fisherman.

"Then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the consultant.

The fisherman explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family.

The consultant asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

"I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, have an afternoon's rest under a coconut tree. In the evenings, I go into the community hall to see my friends, have a few beers, play the drums, and sing a few songs..... I have a full and happy life." replied the fisherman.

The consultant ventured, "I'm a Six Sigma expert and I can help you......usually I charge £1500/day, but I'll give you this advice for free. You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat. With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have a large fleet. Instead of selling your fish to a middleman, you can negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little village and move to a city here or maybe even in the United Kingdom, from where you can direct your huge enterprise."

"How long would that take?" asked the fisherman.

"Oh, ten, maybe twenty years." replied the consultant.

"And after that?" asked the fisherman.

"After that? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the consultant, laughing,
"When your business gets really big, you can start selling shares in your company and make millions!"

"Millions? Really? And after that?" pressed the fisherman.

"After that you'll be able to retire, move out to a small village by the sea, sleep in late every day, spend time with your family, go fishing, take afternoon naps under a coconut tree, and spend relaxing evenings havings drinks with friends..."

The fisherman smiled and went on his way.

Brilliant
It has taken me 54 years to get to the same place as that fisherman,because I wasted most of it chasing money.
How much sweeter life is now.
GS
 

gunslinger

Nomad
Sep 5, 2008
321
0
69
Devon
If people are so certain money doesnt bring happiness, then why do the poor die much younger due to stress and depression? anecdotes are nice, and I like the one about the fisherman, but most people are not living a troublefree existance. The fisherman is self-sustaining. He gathers his own food and brings it back to his family. For me that lifestyle would be wonderful. The fisherman doesnt live in a society that tells him he is a failure because he didnt rise to the top of the game, its `his own fault` either for not working hard enough, or for not dreaming hard enough. In a society where people have to pay a mortgage, rent college fees bills , taxes , fines and for their food, which they know is poor quality and contains additives, where the person may not even have a garden to go outside in but lives in a block of flats, then that person does not enjoy the kind of quality of life that the fisherman has, hence the hunter-gatherer may not have money but he has wealth. A low income person in England may have more money than him but they are not free in the same way and so they do not have wealth. I suspect that is why many of us are attracted to bushcraft in the first place.
Now Im not trying to say the poor englander is worse off than a poor person in the third world, but that our fisherman friend does not belong among the poor of either group.

Stress and depression do not directly kill anyone. However they both affect people from all walks of life and levels of wealth. I can certainly guarantee that the person spending his time in boardroom meetings etc,suffers much more stress than I do.
We all know the times of the hunter gatherer have long gone,but in my case I work when I want or need to,I dont need much to live,food,warmth and shelter.although I do have the advantage of having had all the trappings and finding that it didnt make me any happier.

As to failure,well believe it or not when I started my first business my family considered me a failure,as to them it meant that I was incapable of a "proper job". Funny how times have changed.

Poor quality food. The answer to this is simple,eat better quality but less of it,cut down on waste.I have seen so many articles about the amount of food wasted in this country,to me that is criminal
If my GF cooks beans for the kids and only uses half she will chuck the rest in the bin,whereas I will put them in the fridge and use them maybe several days later.

Friends of mine buy a huge turkey at xmas,cut the meat from one side of the breast and throw the rest away,or at least they did until I found this out,now I have hundreds of turkey recipes.:D
I detest waste,but then growing up as I said in an earlier post when there were days with no food,I would.

As to going to the charity to give all your money to the third world. Not really much point because by the time they have paid their overheads,and some of these charity managers etc are on huge wages (seems a tad hypocritical to me that) then the elite of the recipient country have stolen and /or skimmed their share off,very little actually gets to the people they purport to be helping anyway.
Problem is with most charities there are too many pigs with their snouts in the trough.

GS
 

firecrest

Full Member
Mar 16, 2008
2,496
4
uk
Personally I dont believe at all that people throw away a third of their food. I have never ever wasted food, apart from the crust ends of bread, nothing could afford to be wasted.
 

gunslinger

Nomad
Sep 5, 2008
321
0
69
Devon
Personally I dont believe at all that people throw away a third of their food. I have never ever wasted food, apart from the crust ends of bread, nothing could afford to be wasted.

Sorry FC I am a bit confused now as I cant find the post saying one third of food wasted ???

Why waste the crusts on bread,there is normally a fight for them and the toaster in our house. Best with real butter and Marmite mmmmmmmmm;)
GS
 

firecrest

Full Member
Mar 16, 2008
2,496
4
uk
I remember it being some study, they some how figured out the average british household wastes one third of the food they buy. I cant think how.
I hate crusts, with avengance! actually in fareness these arent wasted now either, my dad has developed an obsession with feeding the birds. I bought him a feeding station and everymorning he puts scraps out, even chops nuts and makes bird food recipes.
 

scrubcutter

Tenderfoot
Feb 23, 2008
69
0
Dorset
Another price hike?! - well there's a shock (not).

As usual the government is using the excuse of saving the environment by taxing us more on things that we have no choice to use. I'm self-employed and I need my pick-up to work. If I can't afford to use it, my business goes and I end up in the gutter - that's how high the first rung of the ladder is in this country (I can't even afford rent let alone a mortgage). Instead of investing in hydrogen, the only currently viable alternative to fuels, the government spends what it has to, under EU policy, on pointless and damaging fuel replacements such as biofuels. It's almost as if they are deliberately trying to destroy the people and the country.

By the way, and I say this in a polite and considerate way, I'm an estate worker and ecological consultant as well as a climatologist (MSc) so no preaching to me about the damage to the environment and global warming - I know more about it than most. While I am just as concerned about it, if not more, the difference is I know the truth about some of these so-called 'environmentally friendly' policies (which the greenies, no disrespect, among us hail as a step forward) and knowing that truth makes me exceptionally frustrated at the ignorance and arrogance of government.

Yours in a very revolutionary mood,

Scrubbity.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,737
1,988
Mercia
Easy Tiger, you'll end up being called a "denier" by some "eco warrior" who may not have studied the facts but is "in tune with the Earth spirit"

;)
 

harryhaller

Settler
Dec 3, 2008
530
0
Bruxelles, Belgium
scrubcutter, it sounds like you believe the government's excuse for price hikes on fuel.

The govt. and the oil companies are like drug pushers - they know people are addicted to the stuff, so they can just put the prices up - they did the the same with tobacco and alcohol - but petrol is better, because people actually need the stuff.

BP et al don't have to worry about demand dropping - there's no serious attempts at using wood gas or hydrogen while the car companies show off "eco" cars which are unaffordable.

The only good side to this situation is that car drivers are paying the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - the bad side is that BP ain't paying - it's the only one who will be receiving the profits from those wars.
 

scrubcutter

Tenderfoot
Feb 23, 2008
69
0
Dorset
No worries, I'm not getting too het up about it British Red - I've long been used to ignorance and most are happy to be educated to understand the processes (nothing wrong with that), but when combined with arrogance where people think they know it all and vehemently stand by it when they clearly know nothing it still grates. Ah well. Perhaps I should write a tv series to explain the science behind global warming.

Harryhaller. I never believe anything the government says, and agree with what you say! I firmly believe that the government has paid attention to 'environmentally-friendly' energy sources such as wind, biofuels, etc., only in response to EU targets. If it was serious about it we'd be driving around in hydrogen fueled cars (or pick-ups) by now.

P.S. Good to see a fellow non-human primate on here!

Cheers.
 

preacherman

Full Member
May 21, 2008
310
0
Cork, Ireland
I've long been used to ignorance and most are happy to be educated to understand the processes (nothing wrong with that), but when combined with arrogance where people think they know it all and vehemently stand by it when they clearly know nothing it still grates. Ah well. Perhaps I should write a tv series to explain the science behind global warming

Scrubcutter

Seeing as you do not know me from adam I presume you were talking about somebody you do know when you say that the ignorance and arrogance shown by people who care about the environment grates ;) .

I am not an eco warrior as I have already said, I will not be found chained to a 4x4 or protesting at summits or anywhere else. I do not claim to know it all, about, or even believe in, climate change, and I live an ordinary lifestyle but I do try and think about what I am doing so as to limit my impact on the environment.

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out and what will happen then ? I presume we all can agree on this point.
Inhaling petrol and diesel fumes is not good for anybody, again I think we can agree on this.

Your general tone though seems to be that we are all right at the moment and no thought for the future and anyone who mentions the depletion of resources or climate change is a raving looney who should be chained to a wind turbine for eternity or " educated". Whether climate change is real or not the fuels will be gone someday and that will change the way we live forever. What I was advocating was that if we all thought about how we drive, ( do we need to drive 200 yards to the shops for a packet of fags on a wet night, I think I can safely say that most on here have rain gear suitable enough for walking in any weather ). There are millions of car owners worldwide and a tiny change in behaviour would ensure a supply of fossil fuels for the next generation. I do not think that its too much to ask that we hand over the planet in the condition we found it. There are endless posts on here about fire scars etc and the fact that shelter building and fire lighting deplete the natural resources but nobody mentions the fact the they have driven many miles in an empty car to partake in their hobby. This also depletes natural resources. Something to think about....

This price rise is about 2%. This is going towards paying for the infrastructure of your country and not straight into the pockets of the oil companies. The whole world is in recession at the moment and countries need money to run the social welfare systems, the health systems etc. and while we all know that most governments have and continue to waste money left right and centre, that will now change because they all know that the people will not stand for it and they will not be elected next time around.

I have just done a quick calculation and I am happy to be corrected but based on an average diesel car doing 250 miles a week @ an average 35 miles to the gallon and an average cost of £4.54/gallon costs £32.42 per week in fuel. This new increase will add approximately 64p to your weekly fuel bill. 64p would take you about 5 miles based on this calculation..... Something to think about....

Your government has already reduced VAT so you are saving on the cost of everything else you buy already but strangely there was no praise for the government for that. My government decided to raise our duty on fuel by 8c, our VAT by 0.5% and slapped a levy of a minimum of 1% on our gross earnings and we have another budget next week that will probably double all of the above. 2p a litre is nothing compared to what is coming down the line for most people......
 

scrubcutter

Tenderfoot
Feb 23, 2008
69
0
Dorset
Hiya Preacherman,

Seeing as you do not know me from adam I presume you were talking about somebody you do know when you say that the ignorance and arrogance shown by people who care about the environment grates .

Don't misquote me - I said arrogance still grates. As said in my earlier message, I don't mind ignorance as long as people want to be educated. Many people think that anything which appears green is green as told to them by government and the media. However, what appears green is not necessarily the case (see below).

Your general tone though seems to be that we are all right at the moment and no thought for the future and anyone who mentions the depletion of resources or climate change is a raving looney who should be chained to a wind turbine for eternity or " educated".

I've been misread here. I don't think we're alright at the moment. In fact I believe we're screwed no matter what we do, not that we should not try which I most definitely think we should. However, we need to take the right path not the wrong one and I know that many people have been fooled into thinking that certain routes are the green environmentally friendly ones when there is a damn good chance that they're are a load of rubbish (e.g., they don't work) and are ultimately (even with good intent) just a means of taxing the masses even more.

For example, the pursuit of biofuels is seemingly as damaging if not more damaging as shown by further investigations into the viability of the whole biofuel industry which are beginning to show the whole picture. While the actual use of biofuels is much less polluting than fossil fuel use in IC engines, the production, need for a huge amount of land, replacement of food crops, etc., etc., may not reduce Greenhouse Gas emissions and may cause problems elsewhere such as increasing food prices and reducing food availibility (the World Health Organisation state that 54% of the human population is malnourished). This is what I mean about educating those who are ignorant of all the facts (and I do not mean this in a derogatory way). I personally like to hear about advances in 'green' technology and their beneficial effects but I also want to make sure they work. I live in reality not a convenient 'green' dream.

Anyway, I shan't go further down that line as it is removed from the thread which was the increasing cost of fuel yet again.

Yes it has 'only' gone up 2p a litre but that is on top of all the other incremental increases over the last year or so. These increases stemmed from the incredible rise in the price of oil which has not been fully explained by the people involved. Now that the oil prices have dropped (and dropped to their lowest level for several years in fact) we should have been back to the price ranges of somewhere between 60p and 80p a litre. We're not and that is because of the weak pound against the dollar. In addition, many people are having to take wage freezes, wage drops, and even losing their jobs because of the economic cock-up the banks and governments have caused. However, 2p a litre does count for many people. They've also had to endure rises in road tax, insurance, etc. On top of that is the general rise in the cost of living, especially if you're poor. Wages are not keeping up with increases in bills, rent, mortgages, etc, so the poor are getting poorer while the rich are getting richer (same old story but now getting rather acute). Are these people wasting money on driving down the road to pick up milk when they could have walked? No, most definitely not. They walk. They have no alternative. (I personally keep my use of my pick-up to a minimum, ie., for work or long journeys only).

A 2p rise in isolation is nothing but it isn't in isolation; it is yet another straw that will eventually break the camel's back.

...and while all decent-minded and considerate people will care about the environment and understand that they are an integral part of it and are, collectively, damaging it, when they can't afford a roof over their heads or food in their stomach, the environment will go on the back burner. No individual or group has the right to force people into a corner like that.

Your government has already reduced VAT so you are saving on the cost of everything else you buy already but strangely there was no praise for the government for that.

The VAT reduction was a joke. Everything I bought which was subject to VAT did NOT drop in price. Everyday items such as clothing and food did NOT drop in price. Only high priced items that were advertised at their non-VAT price changed. The government didn't recieve any praise as the implementation cost more than the saving - it was a PR excercise that backfired!!!!!! Again reality is different from what people are told by the government. ...and no I'm not getting into an argument about who is worse off, Ireland or UK - I think we're all in the poo.

I should finally add that I think everyone is of the same concensus. Everyone hates having to pay any money, let alone more, to a corrupt, incredibly arrogant, incompetent, nasty, and conceited government who will throw it away. We want to use alternative methods for fuel but we have not been given that alternative.

Cheers.
 

preacherman

Full Member
May 21, 2008
310
0
Cork, Ireland
Hi Scrubcutter,

I have been away for a few days so have just seen this post now. I think we are actually on the same page really, just that we have different ways of saying things. I apologise if I misread your original post, its just that with all the crap going on in the world right now I try and look for something positive. I totally understand the financial position of many people, and the worries over jobs, myself included ( I work in a leisure industry ) but this is a bushcraft forum and not really a social commentary one so I felt that it was okay to mention that the reduction in consumption of fossil fuels will help extend the life of the planet and in fact expected this to be reinforced by people on here.

There will always be an arguement for and against the various alternative fuels so I had not gone down that road on purpose. The message I try and get across in my own job is that we each as individuals can make a difference by just thinking about how we use energy. I am optimistic though that someday we will come up with a genuinely efficient way to power the world because not even the vested interests in the oil companies want the world to stop turning.

Once again, apologies if I appeared arrogant etc. its just that I do care what happens to our planet and wonder why others will not even try to make some little bit of an effort to make a difference.

Keep the faith.
 

scrubcutter

Tenderfoot
Feb 23, 2008
69
0
Dorset
Hiya Preacherman,

Absolutely no worries and no offence was taken at all.

I use a saying - "If one has been misread or misheard it's because one didn't write or speak properly in the first place".

I'm sure once the right people get together they will come up with the solutions, but they will need to be brutal in their attitude towards those who will want to bring them down for their own selfish purposes.

...then there's the problem of human overpopulation which is the root of all problems facing the natural world and ourselves, but that's another thread!

All the best,
Scrubbity
 

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