Just a little thought about the lack of skills,equipment and being prepared.Fourteen years ago i was caught by something we all take for granted- health/fitness, and at 36 felt fit and healthy not a problem carrying a 50 lb bag all the right stuff but on my own.Miles from any small village and suddenly huge pain in chest that dropped me to the floor pretty rapid.At first you realise what is happening but in that 1 to 2 mins most of your body functions do not work any more----had a phone and signal but my hands and fingers would not respond to what my brain was saying -- even if they did i found i couldn`t speak properly either!!! Good job this was summer and somebody else was walking on my route or i would certainly not be here.So even with some of the best equipment to hand i couldn`t use it nor could i use skill as you need hands!!!!!!!!!!!
A silly man?
- Thread starter rik_uk3
- Start date
Some years ago I read about two men who, one winter, were on a small island in the middle of a fairly small lake. (I believe this was in Colorado, but am not sure.) Regardless, they were canoeing to the main land, a short distance away, when the canoe capsized. Some other men on on the shore saw this happen, got into a power boat and had them out of the water in just a few minutes. Neither man could function. They were almost unconscious. They managed to get them into some sleeping bags and transport them to the hospital. They survived but had they not had help, they would not have made it.
Frankly, I think some of you guys have no idea whatsoever what the cold is like in the Canada. You will lose your ability to use your hands and fingers very quickly, your mind will not function well, you won't think clearly, and your core temperature is dropping like a rock.
I can see the scenario you imagine: "Oh, I've fallen in some frigid water, my clothes are soaked, the temperature is below zero, there is three feet of snow on the ground, and the wind is blowing. Well, I'll just find some wood to burn, some kindling, and then I'll whip out my tinder and my mora / firesteel and I'll have a large roaring fire going in about an hour. Well, I might as well construct a shelter while I wait on the fire." Trust me, this is is not how it is going to be.
Canada is not the U.K. You do not experience the kind of cold that they do. You cannot judge this guy based on your experiences in Britain. If he experienced a sudden soaking incident, he might have had 5 or 10 minutes to save himself. Not enough. Very possibly he had everything he needed, but had some very bad luck.
Good riddance? I don't think so. I hope none of you ever have a similar accident.
Frankly, I think some of you guys have no idea whatsoever what the cold is like in the Canada. You will lose your ability to use your hands and fingers very quickly, your mind will not function well, you won't think clearly, and your core temperature is dropping like a rock.
I can see the scenario you imagine: "Oh, I've fallen in some frigid water, my clothes are soaked, the temperature is below zero, there is three feet of snow on the ground, and the wind is blowing. Well, I'll just find some wood to burn, some kindling, and then I'll whip out my tinder and my mora / firesteel and I'll have a large roaring fire going in about an hour. Well, I might as well construct a shelter while I wait on the fire." Trust me, this is is not how it is going to be.
Canada is not the U.K. You do not experience the kind of cold that they do. You cannot judge this guy based on your experiences in Britain. If he experienced a sudden soaking incident, he might have had 5 or 10 minutes to save himself. Not enough. Very possibly he had everything he needed, but had some very bad luck.
Good riddance? I don't think so. I hope none of you ever have a similar accident.
I wouldnt be out there with no kit, i wouldn't rely on building a shelter. Especially in those conditions. I'm not stupid.
If something happened that caused it that was out of the ordinary or unplanned for then like i said, fair enough, its harsh for the bloke. But as it stands, he did a daft thing by going out ill equpped with no means to dry his clothes or himself should he get wet. No source of warmth, no food for energy and warmth creation, The bloke stacked it all against himself, he left himself at a major disadvantage and copped for it.
The fact he was there with what he had, of his own choosing shows the bloke wasn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
Would you even try 4 days in the UK with just an axe and a bit of fishing kit in winter?
No food
no tent/hammock
no light
no dry clothes should it rain
??
I wouldn't. Not because i can't, but because i dont want to. I'm not trying to be a survivor, the fact is everyone who is alive today are all survivors, so why try to be something you are already? We survive life as it is today because we live today. Stick an aboriginie straight from the bush in london city centre and lets see how long it takes him to get run over. Same difference.
We have just had adopt new techniques for survival in this day and age, we dont have to hunt a deer to eat or build a fire to survive winter, we have to manage finances to keep food on the table and us warm when its cold.
We as a species are not naturally equipped to deal with this planet, Nearly everything would kill us if we didnt invent a tool or bit of kit or somesuch to off set our dis advantages. He went out and left most of his advantages at home. What did he really expect? A good time?
I'll refer you to chinkapin's post. What difference would any kit make if, because of some stroke of bad luck involving the cold, you're not able to use your hands?
I'm not saying this chap was fully prepared for this environment but neither am i calling him an idiot or a pratt as some have done, and i certainly won't say 'good riddance' as one baffling poster has. This guy was doing what we do whenever we get the chance. Don't we get funny looks when someone asks what kind of tent have we got and we say well actually I sleep under a tarp. We all strive to be minimal with our kit. And don't forget he was only going for the weekend and left instructions as to where he'd be and when to expect him. No I don't think he was a fool, I think he's just had a bit of bad luck.
I'm not saying this chap was fully prepared for this environment but neither am i calling him an idiot or a pratt as some have done, and i certainly won't say 'good riddance' as one baffling poster has. This guy was doing what we do whenever we get the chance. Don't we get funny looks when someone asks what kind of tent have we got and we say well actually I sleep under a tarp. We all strive to be minimal with our kit. And don't forget he was only going for the weekend and left instructions as to where he'd be and when to expect him. No I don't think he was a fool, I think he's just had a bit of bad luck.
A man must make his own luck
Like i said though, if something happened out of the ordinary which would include chinkapins post or similar, then it is harsh for the bloke for it to have happened, im definately not in the camp of he got what he deserved an all that, nor will i laugh at him.
What kind of looks would you get if you said you were off to sleep in the snow in -12 for 4 days with an axe? Funny looks wont even come near to the reaction you would get i should imagine
What kind of looks would you get if you said you were off to sleep in the snow in -12 for 4 days with an axe? Funny looks wont even come near to the reaction you would get i should imagine
But it could be done. And has been. You get enough firewood and you sit by the fire. Simples. (doesn't sound great mind)
Something went wrong with this guys trip or maybe he did make a bad decision. This unfortunately cost him his life but I'm quite sure he knew the risks. He isn't the first person to die in the wilderness and he won't be the last. The media condemns him for being some kind of obsessed nutter and sadly many on this forum join in. Very surprising.
Mmmm,
Most folk on this forum myself included will have never met Richard Code,
We wont know what type of guy he was. Did he make you laugh was he an As##hole. Was he hard working, or a slacker. Was he inspiring or a bore.
We just know a little about how he died and that like a lot of us he read books on the outdoors and survival and watched TV programmes a lot of us watch and got into the outdoors and perhaps took part in a forum on the web. We don't know exactly what killed him we just have about 468 words and a bit of video footage.
Yet those 468 words are enough to judge him as an idiot for some to say 'good riddance' for some to comment on the skills of a man they've never met and now never will.
Did he seemingly make some errors? Perhaps I wasn't there so I cannot tell.
Was his risk management plan poor? Perhaps I wasn't there so I cannot tell.
I feel sad at the loss of someone in this world I had something in common with.
I feel sad for the family who have lost a loved one
I feel sad that this forum seemingly rejoices in the death of someone who deep down was like a lot of us.
John
Most folk on this forum myself included will have never met Richard Code,
We wont know what type of guy he was. Did he make you laugh was he an As##hole. Was he hard working, or a slacker. Was he inspiring or a bore.
We just know a little about how he died and that like a lot of us he read books on the outdoors and survival and watched TV programmes a lot of us watch and got into the outdoors and perhaps took part in a forum on the web. We don't know exactly what killed him we just have about 468 words and a bit of video footage.
Yet those 468 words are enough to judge him as an idiot for some to say 'good riddance' for some to comment on the skills of a man they've never met and now never will.
Did he seemingly make some errors? Perhaps I wasn't there so I cannot tell.
Was his risk management plan poor? Perhaps I wasn't there so I cannot tell.
I feel sad at the loss of someone in this world I had something in common with.
I feel sad for the family who have lost a loved one
I feel sad that this forum seemingly rejoices in the death of someone who deep down was like a lot of us.
John
Thank you for that JohnBoy. Very well said.
My only extrapolation from this is, if he was confident enough to go for 4 days
with almost nothing, he probably felt reasonably confident in his abilities.
Yes, -12 C can kill you, but here in Canada that is considered a beautiful day
for February. Hypothermia may have got him, but something prevented him from
just getting up and walking out.
My best wishes for his family.
My only extrapolation from this is, if he was confident enough to go for 4 days
with almost nothing, he probably felt reasonably confident in his abilities.
Yes, -12 C can kill you, but here in Canada that is considered a beautiful day
for February. Hypothermia may have got him, but something prevented him from
just getting up and walking out.
My best wishes for his family.
I thought that, or maybe fell and brokke an ankle or leg, or ribs, fractured skull etc, knocked himself out maybe? Dead fall branch? In sub zero conditions a hit eto your body like that is going to dramatically alter the sceanrio.
What is the old saying, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing?
My friend and i spent boxing day to new year in the cairngorms a couple of years back,2 weeks before 2 lads froze to death on a mountain there but unfazed we still went.We were tooled up to the eye balls had to keep a fire going for about 12 hours a day no twigs n branches we had to fell dead standing trees and feed them in just to keep the fire going that long.
The weather too with -8 temps plus 40 to 50 mph winds rain sleet and snow near the end,we were well fed well hydrated proper winter clothing, but still both of us were in the first stages of hypothermia,not able to think straight mumbling the cold slowing creeping in.
When it started snowing we made the decision to leave but not lightly,i wanted to stay it was great being there, my friend persuaded me to leave and to this day i thank him for it,cos to this day i believe if we had not left that day we wouldnt have made it back and slowly succumbed to the cold.
People on here saying if he got wet or if he fell in water or if he had gear.You dont need to get wet to get hypothermia it just brings it on faster,you can do everything right, fire, gear, clothes, hell knowledge too, prolong yourself to the elements for long enough and the cold works its way in.
Jason
The weather too with -8 temps plus 40 to 50 mph winds rain sleet and snow near the end,we were well fed well hydrated proper winter clothing, but still both of us were in the first stages of hypothermia,not able to think straight mumbling the cold slowing creeping in.
When it started snowing we made the decision to leave but not lightly,i wanted to stay it was great being there, my friend persuaded me to leave and to this day i thank him for it,cos to this day i believe if we had not left that day we wouldnt have made it back and slowly succumbed to the cold.
People on here saying if he got wet or if he fell in water or if he had gear.You dont need to get wet to get hypothermia it just brings it on faster,you can do everything right, fire, gear, clothes, hell knowledge too, prolong yourself to the elements for long enough and the cold works its way in.
Jason
It could be done, i agree with you there
Not by me for fun though. It aint nice, i've had to do things like that and much worse back in my Legion days. I definately dont think the bloke was an obsessed nutter or we're all obsessed nutters. From what i have read it seems like he wasn't prepared for what lay ahead. But thats the impression the article puts out.
I agree with Chinkapin that the cold in places like that is simply unreal. Fall in water on your own and you're lucky to get out at all, never mind do anything once you have. People have lost lives or limbs on much better planned trips than this one.
That said, I can't help but agree with Mark. What he did was stupid, he didn't know his environment and if he did know the risks, chose not to pay attention to them. I know Canadians and Alaskans who carry more than that when they're driving to the grocery store! The fact that he died has no bearing on my opinion of what he did. I still think it would've been stupid if he survived, I think it would be stupid if he came out fatter and with a keg of beer. The fact that he died makes it a tragedy, but no less foolhardy.
RIP fella.
Pete
That said, I can't help but agree with Mark. What he did was stupid, he didn't know his environment and if he did know the risks, chose not to pay attention to them. I know Canadians and Alaskans who carry more than that when they're driving to the grocery store! The fact that he died has no bearing on my opinion of what he did. I still think it would've been stupid if he survived, I think it would be stupid if he came out fatter and with a keg of beer. The fact that he died makes it a tragedy, but no less foolhardy.
RIP fella.
Pete
It's sad that he died, he seemed passionate about his hobby and it's a shame that he's no longer around to practise it.
The thing is, he had apparently only been out on 5 other trips like this and not in the snow. Survival in the warmer months is one thing but winter survival is quite another. Les Stroud even said in one episode that you wouldn't get him out in a northern Ontario winter without at least a wool blanket and an axe, this man didn't seem to have any blanket or sleeping bag and that seems very unprepared.
Now he wasn't going out camping, he was trying to survive, so in certain situations you wouldn't have things like a sleeping bag or fire starting methods but for him to not take them along just in case seems reckless.
He may have died from a heart attack or from slipping and hitting his head, we don't know (though is says he was found in a marshy area so it sounds like he got wet to me), but it seems like he was unprepared and got a lot of his information from books. Reading about how to survive doesn't mean you know how to, you need actual dirt time to learn that and with only five trips in warmer conditions, it doesn't sound like he had much experience in winter survival and jumping straight in to a multiple night trip is definately not the way to go about learning.
He died doing what he loved and I used to think the same way, I'd rather go out, try, and fail than not go out at all. The problem is, if you just go out there without knowing what you're doing then chances are, you will fail and then you don't get to do what you love anymore.
So it's a shame that he died. I'm not going to badmouth the dead but he did seem unprepared and if you're not going to take survival seriously, then this kind of thing happens. My condolences to his family and may he rest in peace.
The thing is, he had apparently only been out on 5 other trips like this and not in the snow. Survival in the warmer months is one thing but winter survival is quite another. Les Stroud even said in one episode that you wouldn't get him out in a northern Ontario winter without at least a wool blanket and an axe, this man didn't seem to have any blanket or sleeping bag and that seems very unprepared.
Now he wasn't going out camping, he was trying to survive, so in certain situations you wouldn't have things like a sleeping bag or fire starting methods but for him to not take them along just in case seems reckless.
He may have died from a heart attack or from slipping and hitting his head, we don't know (though is says he was found in a marshy area so it sounds like he got wet to me), but it seems like he was unprepared and got a lot of his information from books. Reading about how to survive doesn't mean you know how to, you need actual dirt time to learn that and with only five trips in warmer conditions, it doesn't sound like he had much experience in winter survival and jumping straight in to a multiple night trip is definately not the way to go about learning.
He died doing what he loved and I used to think the same way, I'd rather go out, try, and fail than not go out at all. The problem is, if you just go out there without knowing what you're doing then chances are, you will fail and then you don't get to do what you love anymore.
So it's a shame that he died. I'm not going to badmouth the dead but he did seem unprepared and if you're not going to take survival seriously, then this kind of thing happens. My condolences to his family and may he rest in peace.
Couldn't agree more. Its very possible this man spent the hours/minutes up to his death in a terrified state, weeping, screaming and in pain, but worse of all knowing there was no-one around to help and that he was going to die and never see his friends and loved ones again. Few of us, mercifully, will find ourselves in such a situation and its my guess that anyone that has survived such an ordeal would not be on here crowing about it.
I'm disgusted at some people on here for making judgements on him knowing very little about him or his circumstances and can't help but think there is a macho element of the "THAT wouldn't have happened to ME" being displayed.
I think your last paragraph is far too kind a comment.
These s.o.bs, quite frankly, are a bloody disgrace.
Why is it that they have to be so prescriptive with events in others lifes and deaths? why do they feel that they have to get their oar in?
I am left with one consuming thought...Jesus H. Christ, what has this forum come to; when the hell did it go so wrong.
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