A couple of questions for our Smiths

[HillBill]

Hi folks.

I'm putting a smithing set up together, and would like some advice on tools if possible.

I'm still rooting about for an anvil on ebay and i'm making my own forge.

What i'd like is recommendations on what type of tools to buy, hammers, tongs etc.

I'm aiming at doing all sorts of smithing, blades, axes, damascus, ornamental stuff, fire steels, pot hangers, tripods etc, so i dont really know where to start with tools. I do plan on making my own tools when i have gotten to grips with the basics, so i suppose i'm just looking for basic tools.

Also, whats the best type of material to use? I have loads of old files for knives and fire steels. But what about for the other stuff? the decorative things that don't need hardening. Where is a good place to get it?

Thanks
Mark

 

[Everything Mac]

These days eBay is definitely your best bet. I check it quite regularly for odd tools that I unlikely to find any where else.
Though people do have luck with putting adds in the local paper.

Auctions are good. And so are local markets - I usually get my files from the market, hunt round though some will do ten for a £1 some want £1 each

All the hammers I've got have been from my local market. I think I must have spent no more than £10 for about ten hammers. All different shapes etc etc. you can again get them on eBay or buy new. But you will pay some serious cash for them. Check for chips in the face/ cracks. A loose handle. Stuff like that.

You want to start with ideally a 2lb ball pein. That will probably be your main hammer. Straight pein hammers are harder to come by and are useful for certain things like drawing out. Heavier hammers are also harder to come by in my experience.
Check the hammer for weight and balance, if it don't sit right you won't use it.

I'd buy a few sets of tongs on eBay to get you started. I started with one set of flat jawed tongs which I then used to make a few others. I've picked up and made several since then but the first two I had see the most use. Try to get ones with a small say 1/4" opening for stock. That should hold a reasonable amount of steel thicknesses.
Round tongs are handy but it essential. -quite a lot if tongs on there just now.

Can you weld? That is pretty handy for making things.

Always consider using rail track as an anvil to begin with, this stuff makes an excellent beating platform. Particularly if you secure it to something solid.

As for steel well you need to find a steel merchant of some kind. I've always been lucky with the steel, using scraps from my dads workshop.
B&q sell steel that could get you started.

Once you get yourself a set of tongs/anvil etc then the first thing you make should be your fire tools. These have the advantage of being both useful and teach you a lot about forging. You can make a poker if you really want but I gave mine away eventually as I never used it. Make a rake, far more useful.

A shovel would be pretty handy too but you'll need sheet steel and rivets for that. (to do it easily)


There are numerous how to websites and videos online which are worth trawling. I used these extensively when I started out.
Get an apron. A decent leather one. You will drop metal all over the place when you first start to get the hang of tongs and it will burn through clothes very quickly. :/ I speak from experience.

Generic safety gear is a must. ...do as I say not as I do.

Bst advice I can give is to just start hitting metal. You soon pick it up. You will learn a lot very fast. If you can spend a day within actual smith - just ask to watch what he does you'll learn a lot more than you think just watching a pro.

All the best
andy

 

[HillBill]

Thanks Andy.

Yeah, seen all the stuff on ebay. I've found a website which sells hammers which may be suitable and they are cheap. Worth a shot do you think? I was going to grab one of each size.
http://www.derwerkzeugprofi.de/shop...n-hammer---Engineer-s-hammer.html&language=en

I've got some ball pein hammers that i picked up from a carboot sale. Got about 30 old sheffield files from boot sales too.

Yes i can weld, and i have access to various welders.

Rail track? I had considered it, but i decided i'd rather get the right anvil first. I expect i will get some rail track too later, as a smaller surface if i need it for anything.

No worries about the safety gear and i expect i could make a leather apron easily enough

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out

 

[launditch1]

Try and buy and buy a few sets of flat mouth tongs to start with.These can easily heated and hammered to fit the shape of the metal you are working on.A chisel ended hardy is handy too.They can be set in the hardy hole or mounted in a vice.I admit to being a hoarder of tools! there are only about five that i use regularly though:Cross pein hammer, round and flat mouth tongs, coke rake(on the fire), chisel hardy and a leg vice (highly recommended but not essential) Alot of the other tools i have made myself like drifts, hot chisels, scrolling tongs and former ect..

Do you know any farmers?Most of them have a scrap pile they might let you have useful bits of steel...

 

[Everything Mac]

Chisel hardy is a good call launditch. I use a brick chisel.

 

[Silverhill]

When it comes to advice, I think you've got some real nuggets already, but I'd strongly suggest (out of personal experience) getting the biggest anvil you can afford and save yourself the hassle of future upgrades.

If you can find yourself a pair of 'Wolf-jaw' tongs, they are handy to have as you can hold a number of sizes of stock in them. The hammers you linked to are very similar to the ones Cromwell tools sell as 'machinists hammers' for a similar price. The machinists hammers that Cromwells sell are also useful for forging into adzes and axes, as Dave Budd demonstrated within one of his tutorials.

All the best!

 

[HillBill]

Cheers guys

Anvil choice is dictated by whats available and how far i have to travel to collect. The one i've seen which i like the look of is 77kg, Which should be big enough for now. Dont mind buying a big one, as and when a suitable one becomes available.

 

[nic.]

Sounds good, big anvil with decent face and edges. With a couple of pairs of tongs and some Hammers you can make all the other tools. Might as well parctice on something that is useful but you don't have to worry about it being pretty enough to sell.
If you are doing non-tool steel iron work buy in some proper mild steel stock. Its not worth your time either forging stuff to the section you want or removing rust. Black mild is what it is called around here. Try a steel stockholder; they will want to sell stock lengths of 20ft. They may want to charge for cutting it up; a cordless angle grinder is dead handy.

 

[Everything Mac]

Just looked at those hammers. They should do fine. You might have to grind the edges smooth or rounded. I had some square hammes that kept leaving marks in my work.

77kg is fine. Much larger than the anvil I learned on though I agree with Silverhill, try and buy the largest you can get. I just upgraded to a 225lb Peter wright, but there are larger anvils on eBay that would have been nicer! And this one needs a bit of work, but at the same time it's a Peter wright and in good overall condition.

The good thing about anvils is that there are more and more people taking it up as a hobby and they retain their value very well.

Cheers

 

[HillBill]

I'll keep an eye out for a larger one, but in all honesty i'm not an anvil guru and would probably end up with something unsuitable I think i might just try get this one and see how it goes. If all goes well, i'll probably invest in a new peddinghaus unless something really nice catches my eye.

I bought a 500g and a 1kg hammer last night. I'll see how i get on with them. I have a 2kg lump hammer if i need something heavier.

Cheers for all the advice so far guys

 

[Everything Mac]

Peddinghaus...... Drool.

 

[Ruvio]

I Saw an anvil for sale yesterday, I'm off for a wander out that way later on or tomorrow so I'll have a look if it's still there. Don't hold your breath though, we have a few "smiths" that make those...bent sign "art" that tend to snap absolutely everything up

 

[HillBill]

Some git nicked that Anvil. Not happy.

 

[HillBill]

Is this any good?

 

[Everything Mac]

Gutted. There's usually quite a few for sale in your area. In fact more often than not the anvils for sale are "up t'north"

Theres a few on eBay just now, most of them look ok.

A larger one is better in the long run, but a smaller one securely fitted to a very heavy base will work just as well.

Cheers

Edit, yes that looks ok to me, barring the paint. There are buying guides online but in short, check for ring and rebound when you hit it with a hammer.

A dull sounding anvil may be cast iron, which is no good.

 

[HillBill]

Cheers That one is made by kirkstall forge. Does that imply its forged, rather than cast?

Yeah i've seen the ones on ebay. some look a bit battered. Others are ok but too far for me to go.

Anyone know what type of anvil this is? Curious as to the purpose of the cut out.

 

[demographic]

There's often anvils ball pein hammers and other forging gear for sale in my local secondhand tools sale barn.
How much are you prepared to spend and I can take a pic if I see one and ask him.

 

[HillBill]

Looking at spending about £200 maximum on my first anvil.

Thanks I have hammers, tongs i need also.

 

[demographic]

Looking at spending about £200 maximum on my first anvil.

Thanks I have hammers, tongs i need also.

He had a big one there a while ago for £150 if I remember right. By big I mean more than 200 pounds in weight but that was bought before I saw it, was just waiting for its new owner to collect it.

 

[HillBill]

Yeah, something along those lines would be great. There is a 2cwt one for sale only 6 miles from me ( the one in the top pic.) I'm just waiting for a response from the seller.