Primitive Tech Tree

[bearbait]

A nice evolutionary "laugh"!

Crows and magpies using anti-bird spikes to build nests, researchers find

Dutch study identifies several examples of corvids’ ‘amazing’ ability to adapt to the urban environment

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pattree]

A few hours watching James Burkes "Connections" from the 1970s and now available on YouTube will, I think, meet your definition of a Tech Tree.

I’ve been trying to remember that program since this thread started and I couldn’t picture the presenter.
It was a good series. You couldn’t buy a smooth running petrol engine until someone saw a marsh gas pop gun. That one stuck with me

 

[Minotaur]

I have said about this before what skills do you need to advance?
To give an example, to make cord you need to be able to:
Identify certain plants
How to prepare them
How to twist fibres

You have to wonder were things like distaffs and spindles fit in as a next step and then you have rope making machines.

 

[Navaja]

A few hours watching James Burkes "Connections" from the 1970s and now available on YouTube will, I think, meet your definition of a Tech Tree.

Funnily enough when I read TeeDee's opening post "Connections" came to mind. Brilliant series & the book is a good read even if not right up to present date.

Though maybe more up-to-date than your idea TeeDee the "connections" in each program (or chapter) usually start with a fairly early invention, the plough for example.

"Burke contends that one cannot consider the development of any particular piece of the modern world in isolation. Rather, the entire gestalt of the modern world is the result of a web of interconnected events"

Connections (British TV series) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Navaja]

Ok - lets spin it on its head.

Fantasy scenario - you are marooned in a wilderness location abundant with a range of normal resources but you have nothing apart from the unbreakable clothes on your back. ( The clothes and fabric can't be used )

What would be the first tool you make or thing you make?
And what would then be the 2nd thing?
And what would then be the 3rd thing?

In short what be your Tech Tree?

I've always assumed man's first tools as hammer then knife. A hammer because that's simply picking up a rock & then something sharp follows.
As for progression, "necessity is the mother of invention" so it's circumstance dependant.

 

[TeeDee]

I've always assumed man's first tools as hammer then knife. A hammer because that's simply picking up a rock & then something sharp follows.
As for progression, "necessity is the mother of invention" so it's circumstance dependant.

So 1st tool - a cudgel ( could be a bigger rock )

1) Large rock/cudgel/stick
Hit smaller rock to create sharp stone Knife / blade splinter

2) Sharp stone Knife / Blade splinter

3)?


I guess what I'm asking is in what order of works makes sense to progress from minimal effort to more effort ( But better results )

So Yes an Atlatl probably predates the bow by many many years but if you were stuck in the fantasy / hypothetical situation would you still say the time . effort and materials make more sense to still create the Atlatl first? or would you progress straight to crafting a bow? or maybe a bundle bow is a midway point?


To boil water one could boil with hot stones in a naturally formed stone depression , but then the tool station ( to boil water ) tends to be fixed to one location - or does one look at boiling in animal skin? or hollowing out a piece of wood to create a bowl type depression that can be taken with you?

To make the burned out bowl one can do it with just hot coals and ones breath and move the embers around or one can find and fashion a suitable wooden type straw blower. Useful for other things.

So in terms of Toolset - I think there is a generic collection of primitive/survival tools that commonly make jumps from one tier of tool existence/fabrication (?) to another easier and more predictable.


These videos give a sort of evolutionary tech tree of creation and replication.

Primitive Technology

Primitive technology is a hobby where you build things in the wild completely from scratch using no modern tools or materials. These are the strict rules: If you want a fire, use a fire stick - An axe, pick up a stone and shape it - A hut, build one from trees, mud, rocks etc. The challenge is...

www.youtube.com

A toolset may contain a 1) Cudgel , 2) cutting implement 3) Ignition source , 4) Container ( of sorts ) to purify water etc etc and then the ancillary tools to obtain other things , food , water. etc

 

[Pattree]

First Nation American ancestors could fold water vessels from birch bark. I have no idea where they fit in the time tree.

First Nation Australians used fire hardened wooden spears (from the spear tree).
The nullah-nullah is a wooden club.
I’ve no idea where the wooden woomera or the boomerang fit in. I do know that the boomerang was not originally designed to return. A returning boomerang has failed.

Throwing and digging sticks are almost universal among ancient cultures.

The indigenous folk of the South American forests used bamboo blow-pipes and wooden darts.

There has been a lot of research recently into a putative Plant Age that that predates the Stone Age. However there must have been considerable overlap. A rock and a bone are so handy.

 

[TeeDee]

First Nation American ancestors could fold water vessels from birch bark. I have no idea where they fit in the time tree.

First Nation Australians used fire hardened wooden spears (from the spear tree).
The nullah-nullah is a wooden club.
I’ve no idea where the wooden woomera or the boomerang fit in. I do know that the boomerang was not originally designed to return. A returning boomerang has failed.

Throwing and digging sticks are almost universal among ancient cultures.

The indigenous folk of the South American forests used bamboo blow-pipes and wooden darts.

There has been a lot of research recently into a putative Plant Age that that predates the Stone Age. However there must have been considerable overlap. A rock and a bone are so handy.

View attachment 92505

Forget history for the moment.

How would you or anyone else do it. Think in those terms.

 

[Toddy]

Honestly ? I think it depends on the situation that you find yourself in.

Stuart wrote years ago about the importance of just taking time to sit and think things through...called it a cup of tea or sommat like.
It was a very good thread, and it really did kind of set up the mind/ thought process of what was actually a necessity vs just reacting hastily.

I believe that having a good skill set, everything from cordage to firelighting, is crucial.

I think that knowing more, being able to create from whatever resources you find around you, is the only real way to be capable and not a statistic.

So, where am I ? what do I need ? what do I have ?

I'd go from there.

M

 

[Toddy]

Thread 'Survival is all about a good cup of tea'

Dec 18, 2005

This is an idea which I suppose was born from a conversation I had with Mors about a year ago. we were sitting by the fire discussing Mors favourite beverage coffee, when we came to the conclusion that as long as you had what you needed to make a cup of coffee/tea/hot chocolate you could make yourself very comfortable in the wilderness.

I thought back to this conversation recently whilst trying to form a lesson plan for teaching civilians (not survival/bushcraft enthusiasts) preparation and initial action plans for becoming lost in the jungle.


"FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN, DO SOMTHING!"

The...

• Stuart
• Replies: 189
• Forum: Bushcraft and survival skills

• 

 

[Pattree]

How would you or anyone else do it. Think in those terms.

How hungry am I?
How big is the local fauna?

I’d start from a digging stick if iI was hungry.
If I was scared I’d start from camouflage and graduate to a wooden spear if I felt up to it.

The problem with the question is motivation. My life doesn’t depend on many of my tools.

Why think beyond archeology. Those guys know what they were doing back then - far more than I do! They knew everything!

 

[Toddy]

They knew their bit of the world, and the skills they needed to thrive. I think, no I know, that humanity is incredibly adaptable, and we think things through, we like making, we like tools, that whole hand eye mind co-ordination, we like to eat We like to be warm and comfortable.
We learn, we learn from others, we learn from experience, we learn from just attempting stuff.

It's not 'survival', it's just life

 

[haptalaon]

I suspect fire was an accident - ooh, look, when I was trying to hit this flint with this funny rock it made the grass smoke (

Ooh I love that description of the thought processes of tool creation. This bit in particular reminded me of a stunning bit in a ray mears book where he describes once seeing two branches rubbing against one another in the wind and making smoke, and wonders whether ancient man ever saw this and got ideas.

 

[Toddy]

I reckon they scavenged after a fire and discovered that the food was better cooked.....and took it from there

 

[Minotaur]

My money is on lightning and then they carried it from place to place before working out how to make it themselves.
Bow drill seems to make sense as being used for a drill first and then to make fire or someone goes I bet you could fling a sharp stick with this. Anyone who has used hand tools knows they generate heat.
I agree about the rock being the first tool as it seems to be other animals first and then you have the pointy stick. It things like weaving that I really wonder about.

 

[Broch]

My money is on lightning and then they carried it from place to place before working out how to make it themselves.
Bow drill seems to make sense as being used for a drill first and then to make fire or someone goes I bet you could fling a sharp stick with this. Anyone who has used hand tools knows they generate heat.
I agree about the rock being the first tool as it seems to be other animals first and then you have the pointy stick. It things like weaving that I really wonder about.

Finding fire and working out how to make it are very far apart. Accidently making it (from a spark when knapping flint) is more likely or, as you say, accidently discovering it when drilling is possible - but most drilling was done with a flint tip as far as evidence is concerned.

As for bows - the bow and arrow was developed out of need and probably used to improve the hand drill out of desire. Two completely different types of motivation.

The problem with cloth, as Toddy has pointed out, is that organic material doesn't last and is lost. Chantal Conneller talks about Mesolithic cloth but not woven. Ask anyone that's half decent with crochet and they can knock up a jumper in no time at all. You could do the same from a great many plant fibres. Conneller quotes two stitches - couched button-hole and the same with an extra turn that creates a more dense weave. Imaging someone making a fishing net, using a very small shuttle so you end up with very small holes. Just make two rectangles, sew down the sides leaving two holes at the top, sew across the top leaving one hole in the middle, and you have a primitive thermal vest you can wear under your deer skin - we'll probably never know, but it's highly likely.

 

[Pattree]

It is very difficult to imagine a sequence of events from where we stand in time. We are hampered by one resource that the ancients didn’t have: the knowledge that it’s been done.

I suggested that our early ancestors knew everything. They did. They knew all the information that was available in their universe. (It is suggested that Aristotle was the last known polymath - one who knew everything)

It is tempting to think that each step led to another within an inventor’s lifetime. If you’ve read the Clan of the Cave Bear series then you know that everything: fire, domestic pets, beasts of burden, the spear thrower, and the travois was down to one individual . She may have invented more but I got fed up after the second book.

There must have been generations between some steps and possibly a burst of development then another gap - As seen in the evolution of the vacuum cleaner but spread over hundreds, even thousands of years.

 

[Broch]

As seen in the evolution of the vacuum cleaner but spread over hundreds, even thousands of years.

Spread over tens of thousands of years, developed by different peoples at different times, transported by nomads, lost, forgotten, re-invented .... a complex process (but I'm not even comfortable calling it a process TBH).

Even the sequential timing of the various lithic forms is now being questioned

 

[Minotaur]

... but most drilling was done with a flint tip as far as evidence is concerned.

The massive problem with this train of thought is that there is minimal to no evidence to work with.
Paul Kirtley Podcast 53: Theresa Emmerich Kamper On Traditional Tanning Theresa talks about this issue in this podcast.
Think Ray mentions it in Woodland as well.
The requirements for the stuff that has survived is amazing.