How safe are women alone?

[Genna]

Christy,

I'm so sorry for the loss of your dog. I know how much they can mean to you when ur out alone.
As to going it alone as a lady, well i never have. Sadly i had an very scary experience when i was a teen and its stayed with me probably a lot longer than it should have.

I tend to go out with friends. Male, female, it doesnt matter but trusted does. And i never go far without my dog.

Genna

 

[Christy]

Thank you Genna, your words mean much to me. My dog was my friend, protector and companion. I miss him more then I thought I would and am still sad.

It is more saddening to read you had a bad experience once and are now careful about going camping. Good of you to go with friends and/or dog.
Summer is coming, hope you and everybody else here has nice plans to go away camping, in the wild or on site and have a wonderful time.

 

[C_Claycomb]

The real problem with so-called self defense courses is that they emphasise the physical response, the kicking, puncking, etc. Whether you find one that is just interested in money (Mc-Dojo) or whether you get one that teaches really good dirty tricks is mostly down to your own shopping around. I was lucky, my last instructor was big on dirty tricks, anything goes if it works. A real self defense technique should be learnable very quickly. Training the reactions so that you can pull it out when needed is more complicated.

However, if you have wound up in a situation where you need to employ such techniques you have already screwed up big time and there are some serious mental hurdles that you need to deal with. If you don't deal with those hurdles, it won't matter much if you are able to hit like a ton of bricks back in the gym. A real self defense course should place a lot of emphasis on avoidance, picking up precursor signs, verbal judo/distraction, and how to handle adrenal dump. Teachers who can do this are rarer than those that can teach good dirty tricks, who in turn are fairly rare compared to sports martial art teachers.

 

[xylaria]

I have always gone out for walks on my own, even as a teenager on hampstead heath in N. london. i got flashed at there, he tapped me on my shoulder as I was using secatures on a bracket fungi. I turned around with a jump, he saw the secatuers, his face turned from lechy grin to terror, he pulled up his tracksuit bottoms and ran off before i realised what he was doing. The times I have more serious attempts on my dignity, I knew the men, each time I fought like I was possessed. I broke a blokes nose when i was 15, all 8 stone of me, so wouldn't say women are defenceless.

I have done a job where being sexually assaulted was an occupational hazard. i was given training to deal with it, i was already confidant that I can handle myself but the extra training was very helpful. If anyone lacks confidence good self defence courses can be really helpful esspiecally if the instructor is ex-army female. Never think that any form blade will protect you, it won't unless you are wearing body armour. My kids martial arts instructor teaches tan-tow (art of knife) only to those who have at least 5 years training, and british army only teach it to special units, because it is that difficult to master safely.

I have been to many bushmeets, and have never been approached by anyone frisky on the whiskey, in truth i have met nothing but complete gentlemen (or i am scary). I have never had a single incident while out walking since leaving london 18 years ago.

 

[Doc]

I favour the Ultimate Martial Art:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A600085

 

[andy_e]

I favour the Ultimate Martial Art:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A600085

Amusingly enough, San Shou is a real martial art ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Shou

... though you'd be forgiven for thinking it was merely appropriate footwear for your Ultimate Martial Art.

 

[firecrest]

I have always gone out for walks on my own, even as a teenager on hampstead heath in N. london. i got flashed at there, he tapped me on my shoulder as I was using secatures on a bracket fungi. I turned around with a jump, he saw the secatuers, his face turned from lechy grin to terror, he pulled up his tracksuit bottoms and ran off before i realised what he was doing. The times I have more serious attempts on my dignity, I knew the men, each time I fought like I was possessed. I broke a blokes nose when i was 15, all 8 stone of me, so wouldn't say women are defenceless.

I have done a job where being sexually assaulted was an occupational hazard. i was given training to deal with it, i was already confidant that I can handle myself but the extra training was very helpful. If anyone lacks confidence good self defence courses can be really helpful esspiecally if the instructor is ex-army female. Never think that any form blade will protect you, it won't unless you are wearing body armour. My kids martial arts instructor teaches tan-tow (art of knife) only to those who have at least 5 years training, and british army only teach it to special units, because it is that difficult to master safely.

I have been to many bushmeets, and have never been approached by anyone frisky on the whiskey, in truth i have met nothing but complete gentlemen (or i am scary). I have never had a single incident while out walking since leaving london 18 years ago.

Yes knives are much easier to pull out of the hand than they are to sucessfully stab with, especially in a situation where your likely to be wrestling body to body.
In my own line of work, I work with severely autistic adults who can sometimes be very violent. Im often working alone with them (though Im not trained to work with anybody with serious behavioural problems) When an autistic is in a rage, some of them do not feel pain and are just as likely to injure themselves as others.
Despite this, my bosses have not yet gotten round to putting me on a self defense course. Id have protested this (as its a legal requirement) however the course they offer is so PC its virtually useless. It focuses on `calm voices` and `backing away slowly`
If you speak to the staff on the ground they give the best self defense advice
"Don't do any of the self defense, goddamn RUN!"

 

[John Fenna]

You aint scary Xylaria - I think you are confident, interesting and a pleasure to talk to.
But now I have heard about you breaking noses I will be on my best behaviour!

 

[xylaria]

Yes knives are much easier to pull out of the hand than they are to sucessfully stab with, especially in a situation where your likely to be wrestling body to body.
In my own line of work, I work with severely autistic adults who can sometimes be very violent. Im often working alone with them (though Im not trained to work with anybody with serious behavioural problems) When an autistic is in a rage, some of them do not feel pain and are just as likely to injure themselves as others.
Despite this, my bosses have not yet gotten round to putting me on a self defense course. Id have protested this (as its a legal requirement) however the course they offer is so PC its virtually useless. It focuses on `calm voices` and `backing away slowly`
If you speak to the staff on the ground they give the best self defense advice
"Don't do any of the self defense, goddamn RUN!"

when I worked with LD adults we were given very useful breakaway tution, lots of very gentle ikido (sp?) type moves to get away without harming the client or anyone else. The prison service however was proper nasty moves, oddly i found that client group more responsive to the talk down method, body language and not showing fear. I am great believer in the art of legging it.

 

[Mike Benis]

Very sorry to hear about your dog, Christy. I know how tough it is to lose a companion animal you have had so many adventures with - as you obviously have.

As for the self-defence stuff, I very much agree with Chris and - from way back when - Nicola in this thread. There are many ways of stopping people latching on to you and disengaging from them when they start.

Even if you win in a fight situation, it's very nasty indeed. People who are taught that self-defence is the only way of handling such situations and not how to spot them developing and taking charge in other ways to stop that generally end up contributing to their development.

Cheers

Mike

 

[dommyracer]

I favour the Ultimate Martial Art:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A600085

Aha.... Run Fu...

 

[WhichDoctor]

It is often the case that knowing even a little self defense will make it less lightly that you will be attacked in the first place. The confidence it gives you makes you a less attractive target to nutters and if it doesn't then your in a better position than if you hadn't had any training, even if it is only a bit. All though its good to find a good instructor as has been said.

Also I would say NEVER draw a weapon on a attacker, apart from hairspray or something similar, all it does is up the anti. It may scare them off but if it doesn't it will make them more violent to protect themselves. Also a weapon in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it can be more of a danger to them than anyone ells.

I do attend a very good martial arts class myself that teaches all kinds of dirty tricks but I would still definitely concur with the Run-Lak Fekh school of combat. No attacker can hert you if your not there .

 

[303Brit]

Read this thread with great interest since i have taught self defence to women.
I would imagine your chances of being struck by lightning are greater than being attacked by anyone out in the wilds.But then there are no guarantees that it will never happen.If you really want solitude then its a risk that you might have to take,i would say asses the risks and if you are not comfortable with them travel with a friend,male or female.

But if the desire for solitude is greater ,be prepared,and be aware.Find a good self defence school/course to improve your confidence and ability.Its just another "survival" skill to be learned,like navigation,first aid,fire making etc.Also like those skills, requires regular practice.Though awareness and prevention are the main defences against any unwanted attention.No one, male or female can be 100% safe from an attack of any sort its sadly part of life,its a threat we all face.

 

[firecrest]

To be honest, I suspect most attacks don't begin with a man leaping out onto the back of a woman, but with conversation and coercement. The attacker wants to avoid you fighting as much as you do and will sweet talk and push into a rape.
when I was 14, I this happened to me twice in a town centre, once in broad daylight. I was lucky nothing beyond groping happened, but in both cases the man sidled up , sweet talked , took my hand and `nicely` lead me away. It sounds strange but this over-rode my instincts to be violent because he was talking and I didnt know how to handle it. I did what many teenage girls do in this situation and that is to go along with it. It took me many years to understand why I did this, but I know the exact reason now. it is this:
When a woman is under attack from a much larger man whom she has little chance of escaping, her bodies first instinct is stay alive. this does NOT mean running or shouting or causing in any way, the attacker to get scared, aggitated or violent. The bodies best way of ensuring survival is to pacify the attacker and comply, and to ensure that he understands that should this case come to a court of law, you will have no way of proving a rape took place because you said yes. Thus, with this all on his side, he is much less likely to kill you.
I don't know what self- defense courses teach, but this is a huge mental hurdle for young women. The bodies survival instinct is different to societies instructions. Im not saying women under threat of rape should comply, Im simply pointing out that instincts can literally make you submit even if your mind is screaming at you to run. I just wish chauvanist judges understood this factor whenever rape cases come to court and the girl is accused of `wanting it` because she said yes. Men have a huge mental power over a woman in a vunerable situation.

I was extremely lucky in that the man couldn't find a park and lost interest. Unfortunately my own experience is not even rare.

also, I have a question to ask people who state that doing a self defense course makes you look more confident and therefor less likely a target - what evidence based research do you have to back this claim up? where are the statistics. without them I am not prepared to believe that these courses help in that manner.

 

[reddave]

in reality, a self defence course does nothing. like owning a PSK doesn't help you to survive. If you know how to use them, however, when the 'chips are down' then they save your life. but it takes practice, lots of practice. whether you are ray mears or carlos gracie is down to an understanding of skills and tools, oh and practice. thats why martial arts or army basic training or typing or driving or any type of tuition is boring and repetitive. because then they are eventually second nature and you can concentrate on the stimulus or be aware of the bigger picture.
your horrific experience is still a twisted manipulation of the same principles, although i may have psychologists 'flaming' me for this, and perhaps yourself too. he was trained and aware but you weren't.
but now you are, or want to be. self defence courses don't make you look confident, they just don't make you look as afraid because you are thinking about the exits, getting out of the situation peacefully, what to do if it gets ugly. if an assailant isn't getting the expected response, doubt grows in their mind and they diminish/ back down/ whatever. but not in all cases, so keep your eye very open and then get the hell out as they may have gone for reinforcement/ plan b.

 

[firecrest]

Im just wondering if that we might have to face an awful truth that women might be more likely to survive if they submit to a rape than to fight it.
One thing I know that was researched was how likely you are to survive if you are put in a car and taken to a second location - your chance of being murdered in this situation stands at 90%, so even if your attacker has a gun or a knife, your statistically better off fighting than complying.
So...Are there any statistics that show your chance of survival by fighting back VS your chance of survival if you comply to your attackers wants, excluding getting in their vehicle (a sure sign you gonna be murdered!)

 

[firecrest]

ah I found some research done on it. Thankfully my worry is wrong - You are better off fighting the attacker than complying.
Studies have finally dispelled the myth that women are unable to protect themselves and that resistance will only "make things worse," replacing this erroneous claim with newfound data: immediate and aggressive responses including fighting back are effective. Conversely pleading, reasoning or appealing to a rapist’s humanity is not - the latter being "almost universally futile," notes Dr. Judith Herman, foremost authority on trauma and author of the best selling book Trauma and Recovery.

"By not resisting rape, women may be putting themselves at greater risk," says Sarah Ullman, assistant professor from the University of Illinois at Chicago. Of course fighting carries risks, but Ullman’s research on resistance strategies concluded that a woman’s "level of physical injury is mainly determined by the offender’s use of violence" and initial blows struck, not because she fought back.

Having choices and defense skills may also be critical in the aftermath. "The women who fought to the best of their abilities were not only more likely to be successful in thwarting the rape attempt, but less likely to suffer severe distress symptoms," wrote Herman. "By contrast, women who submitted without a struggle were more likely to be highly self critical and depressed in the aftermath."

 

[reddave]

wow, thanks for the research and time put in to finding it. gonna bookmark this

 

[DoctorSpoon]

A word of warning about research - I am a researcher who works for a university and teaches the fine art of research. Reading research reports make you think this stuff is 'scientific' and people make out things are 'proven'. It's not true. Research is an 'art' and the findings are only proven within the bounds of the research project. Researchers then speculate that their findings might apply in the wider world, but this is not proven.
Nicola

 

[firecrest]

A word of warning about research - I am a researcher who works for a university and teaches the fine art of research. Reading research reports make you think this stuff is 'scientific' and people make out things are 'proven'. It's not true. Research is an 'art' and the findings are only proven within the bounds of the research project. Researchers then speculate that their findings might apply in the wider world, but this is not proven.
Nicola

Very true doctor spoon. in fact, so long as you're careful with how you select research, you can use it to `prove` pretty much anything. Infact roughly 67% of statistics are bias and 20.4% made up on the spot.
I think though, in this case, it can give you a general picture as to whether you have a better chance running or staying, but the statistics can be blurred by the fact that women are more likely to report a rape they escaped from than one they submitted to. Not only that but dead people do not talk, we have know way of knowing if women found dead alone struggled or complied, however, the research done on the motives of rapists (which is extensive) seems to sugest they enjoy the domination and humiliation more than the sex, meaning that the more you plead and act like a victim , the more they enjoy it and probably the more they dispise you. Possibly fighting back and not acting like a victim spoils the fun for them and makes them more likely to give up.