Legal Traps?

[SORLUCY]

Hi all, i am planning a wild camping trip at the end of April and need some advice.
The idea is to 'live off the land' as it is put and am not sure of the legality of trapping etc.

I have searched the net but there doesnt seem to be any clarification on the legal bits.

I do not like using air guns as i would not be confident of an instant kill every time, and the only trap as far as i can see that would kill instantly without suffering are deadfall traps like the figure four and paiute.

Are these legal if you have the land owners permission?

I know that certain snares are legal so i cant see a problem with deadfalls as i think they are a very humane way of killing, but just need some clarification.

 

[Ogri the trog]

There are virtually no improvised traps that would be "legal" in the eyes of the law.
There are some commercial traps sold with specific "pest" species in mind...

... and even these will need explicit landowner permission to use.

To find out what might be legal, you'll have to trawl through the Wildlife & Countryside act and take it word for word -
...if it is mentioned as illegal - you can't do it,

...if it isn't mentioned at all, you can't do it,

.. only if it specifically mentioned as being legal can you take it as being allowed!

Doesn't help you much I'm affraid.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[SORLUCY]

Thanks, ill have a look.
Its weird because if you google deadfall traps there are hundreds if not thousands of hits but nothing about the legals.
My main target would be squirrel and these are considered vermin (grey).
Maybe i should drop them an email because in my eyes these traps are as humane as any.
I mean, sticky traps and snap traps are sold commercially and who is to say that an endangered bird will not end up in one.
The laws surrounding these things, as i have just realised are very murky.

Anyways thanks for the advice.

 

[_mark_]

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/management/pest-control/index.htm
http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/management/documents/snares-cop.pdf

 

[SORLUCY]

Thanks for that mark,

There is some good info there, so snares can be used as long as they are free running and not spring loaded and 'best practice' is exercised.
Im gonna email them about deadfalls as i cant see anything there.
The thing with me about snares is if i were after rabbit, from what ive read, 9 times out of 10 the snared rabbit will sit quietly unharmed until you get to them. But there is always that 1 out of ten that they may die a slow painfall death by strangulation, im not really up for that.
Ill email them and post their reply.

 

[sandbender]

"...Hi all, i am planning a wild camping trip at the end of April and need some advice.
The idea is to 'live off the land' as it is put and am not sure of the legality of trapping etc..."

How long will the trip be for and where? Have you already approached a landowner? You should be able to live of the land without messing around with traps or snares (presuming the trip isn't going to be more than a week or at most two in length).

Will you have an opportunity to fish?

 

[SORLUCY]

The trip will be 5 days or so, I havnt approached any land owners as of yet but it will more than likely be somewhere in Wales. I will try to find out where we were taken as kids, i remember the guide snaring rabbits for us to cook up.
Fishing is an option and I have a rod license, and i spend most of the summer fishing, but I do like my meat and would be nice to try squirrel as ive heard good things about it on here.

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

Dead fall traps come under Section 1 of the Wild Mammals (Protection) Act 1996

viz:

If, save as permitted by this Act, any person mutilates, kicks, beats, nails or otherwise impales, stabs, burns, stones, crushes, drowns, drags or asphyxiates any wild mammal with intent to inflict unnecessary suffering he shall be guilty of an offence.

Sticky traps and snap traps for sale? Can I have a link please. Whilst gin and pole traps are still available to purchase "online" they are illegal to use.
Are the "snap traps" you refer to Fenn traps?

It is also an offence to set snares on land without permission and again, there is specific legislation in relation to the setting of snares.

 

[SORLUCY]

http://www.google.co.uk/products/ca...C4MNGx-QaGq_XiDg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

Copy and paste this in the browser for sticky traps.

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

http://www.google.co.uk/products/ca...C4MNGx-QaGq_XiDg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

Copy and paste this in the browser for sticky traps.

Thanks for that, I thought you meant an alternative "sticky trap"

 

[whitey3192]

this is an interesting site for grey squirrel culling.

hope its of some use
http://www.greysquirrelcontrol.co.uk

 

[Minotaur]

I would have thought you could get in trouble for what you catch as well.

Do they not have Red Squirrels in deepest darkest Wales?

They protected as far as I know.

Do you not need a license to use traps, or certain traps?

Thought Mole men had to be licensed.

 

[leon-1]

Some animals are exempt from the laws that we have for our indigenous species, however the means of dispatch is still supposed to be humane (in some cases this means quick). Mink and Grey Squirrel are among them and they are covered under the Schedule 9 of the countryside and wildlife act.

The likes of the BMI magnum 116 traps are superb, however I would not advise anyone not familiar with them to try setting them, they are very sensitive and highly aggressive. They have a safety catch, however it isn't the best and it's quite easy for them to come undone and leave you vulnerable to severely mangled hands. It is legal to catch rats, rabbits, Grey Squirrel and Mink in this type of trap.

Snares are allowed, but they have to have a minimum of 6 or 8 strands (this requires at least 3 or 4 to go around the eye), the eye must be free floating and spring back into position and they should have cord for tethering to either stake or plant sufficient to hold target species. Snares have to be checked at least once in every 12 hours. You require landowners permission and there are laws as to where they can be set (proximity to rights of way and the like). Don't expect rabbits to be throwing themselves in snares ad traps, it's not unusual to get absolutely nothing in a 24 hr period, infact that's more than likely and that possibly in 3 days they may start to look at being caught. A general rule is that for every 10 snares that you place out only expect to get one of your target species.

Fishing is possibly the way to go.

If you go down the trapping route, check out the wildlife and countryside act, be aware of what makes a snare legal and illegal, permissions required, where they can be placed and what you are allowed as target species, it may also be good to have a look at the countryside and rights of way act 2000.

Also if the area you are in is an SSSI you may find that even the humble rabbit may not be allowed to be taken as the environment may depend on them to help maintain it as it is.

I hope this clears some things up.

 

[leon-1]

Thought Mole men had to be licensed.

Not sure on the mole men mate, but you may find that as commercial pest controllers they may well be licensed.

Most licenses for trapping in the UK seem to apply more to the target species and it's handling, they also are normally limited to indigenous species to this country. The licensing is more to do with live capture as well.

Although there are catch and release licenses for certain animals which are schedule 9 qualifiers, at the moment it would appear that the only qualifier is the coypu.

 

[wolflore]

Have you been on the Natural England website? Websearch Natural England and General Licences.

Snares are a worry. There is no risk of a slow lingering death of a prey species if the correct snare is used. The only 'legal' snares now are those that are not self locking. The snares must have a 'stop' on them to prevent them from closing all the way up. Difficulties lie in setting snares on well used runs at the correct point - it is something that you have to get right otherwise the rabbit will just run around the snare after it has run into it!

If you have an air rifle you have plenty of time between now and then to get proficient at head shots. Just keep practicing.

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

I hope this clears some things up.

It does a bit but it's not quite accurate.

Snares need only be checked once every 24 hours and should be fitted with a stop, even for rabbits. That means that for all but the most experienced homemade snares are no longer an option.
Similarly the snares must be fixed to an anchor which prevents the animal from dragging said anchor away and to an anchor that will not allow the prey to become suspended, either fully or partially, or be drowned as a result of being snared. In essence they are designed to "hold" the target species.

The most current legislation for Scotland is the Snares (Scotland) Order 2010 which came into force on 11th March 2010.

The legislation in England and Wales under the terms of the Wildlife and Countryside Act section 11 covers the use of snares as well however the likes of DEFRA and similar organisations give good practice advice to help keep you within the law.

 

[nigeltm]

Hi B_C

Is it possible that a well made deadfall trap may not be illegal under the act? As you quoted;

... with intent to inflict unnecessary suffering he shall be guilty of an offence. ...

So if a person was to set a trap and engineer it to the point where they believe that it'll cause a clean and quick kill (without smearing it into pate!) they wouldn't have intent to cause unecessary pain. Therefore, they aren't breaking the law as they did not that an intent to cause unecessary pain.

Is this a reasonable argument or is there a presumption that a trap is illegal no matter what.

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

Hi B_C

Is it possible that a well made deadfall trap may not be illegal under the act? As you quoted;



So if a person was to set a trap and engineer it to the point where they believe that it'll cause a clean and quick kill (without smearing it into pate!) they wouldn't have intent to cause unecessary pain. Therefore, they aren't breaking the law as they did not that an intent to cause unecessary pain.

Is this a reasonable argument or is there a presumption that a trap is illegal no matter what.

In a court of law anything is possible!!

Your problem arises with the sheriffs (my experience with wildlife law is all Scottish) belief reached through prosecution / defence evidence in the form of a variety of expert witnesses.

My own personal opinion is that you will really struggle to convince that such a trap that, for instance crushes, will kill instantly in the way that say a fenn trap would. Prosecution is more likely to be as a result of finding an animal actually affected by such a trap.

Like I said though, I've seen cases fail just down to an "experts" ability to make their opinion seem more valid.

Wildilfe Law is a murky world of grey and takes a fair bit of deciphering at times.

 

[leon-1]

It does a bit but it's not quite accurate.

Snares need only be checked once every 24 hours and should be fitted with a stop, even for rabbits. That means that for all but the most experienced homemade snares are no longer an option.

Yes that's true on timings, however it's not what they teach the military. The homemade snare is not what I was getting at, check out the snares that can be bought commercially including the ones that are being sold in the hunter kits, they are totally illegal and if anyone should try to set one and get caught they would be prosecuted by the RSPCA.

Similarly the snares must be fixed to an anchor which prevents the animal from dragging said anchor away and to an anchor that will not allow the prey to become suspended, either fully or partially, or be drowned as a result of being snared. In essence they are designed to "hold" the target species.

Snares are allowed, but they have to have a minimum of 6 or 8 strands (this requires at least 3 or 4 to go around the eye), the eye must be free floating and spring back into position and they should have cord for tethering to either stake or plant sufficient to hold target species.

Thanks for re-iterating the free running / free floating loop and the tether.

However the stop 5 inches (now I believe is 6 inches) from the eye is part of the code of practice laid down by defra, it has not been laid down in law as an amendment to the wildlife and countryside act 1981 for England and Wales, the code was only established in 2005 and concerns over snares and snaring have been running for a lot longer than that. The stop is properly known as a deer stop and is really there so that deer do not catch a leg or become fouled in it, but it does also mention foxes and badgers as non target species.

I haven't read the snares order for Scotland yet, but I am aware that it's law to have a deer stop fitted when snaring in Scotland. I will read it in the next couple of days. The code of practice also mentions tealers should be used. To be honest you probably won't catch much without them.

 

[leon-1]

Hi B_C

Is it possible that a well made deadfall trap may not be illegal under the act? As you quoted;



So if a person was to set a trap and engineer it to the point where they believe that it'll cause a clean and quick kill (without smearing it into pate!) they wouldn't have intent to cause unecessary pain. Therefore, they aren't breaking the law as they did not that an intent to cause unecessary pain.

Is this a reasonable argument or is there a presumption that a trap is illegal no matter what.

It's not as easy as that, you'll find that they would prosecute you anyway because the trap itself has not been licensed as being a humane trap, also due to it being of an improvised nature you could not claim repeatability.

Body grip traps have effectively been licensed as humane mainly because they do not have teeth and they are not designed to maim, they kill very quickly and effectively. They are simple, but of good quality and I must admit every time I demonstrate them they make me jump a bit, I am also very aware of what could happen to my hands should the safety come off and the thing trigger. They are extremely sensitive.

You would be very hard pressed to make an improvised trigger that was as repeatable when it came to sensitivity, once triggered if you blink you miss it.