Uncle Rays New Signature Axe

[robin wood]

Now we are getting into interesting conversation. What is hand forged?

Martyn summed up the differences and reasons well but many folk may not know what the differences between forging in a press with dies as against freehand with hammer or power hammer.

This one is the way most Gransfors axes are made using press and dies, it involves a hell of a lot of hand skill though much of the shape is created and formed by the die.
[video=youtube;HVty29TYovo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVty29TYovo[/video]
freehand forging with hammer and power hammer, this is the way the historical replica range are made. I would be surprised if the new axe is made this way, perhaps it is and they only set dies up when they get to certain volume.
[video=youtube;dbCpDsxUHVc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCpDsxUHVc[/video]
and the way most axes are made is drop forged in China, I think these are sledge hammers in Korea but the process is the same.
[video=youtube;lOfsV20X_C8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfsV20X_C8[/video]

I would suggest that there is no need for there to be any difference in the quality of these three processes though there may be a difference in the working conditions and enjoyment of the work.

 

[Retired Member southey]

that is an awesome vid Rich, i am gonna plan a visit next year,

That second vid is captivating Robin, I worked for a company building precut log cabins for a while and other than being out side and having to cut replacement logs or trims for any thing missing it never felt quite right, but that method of log building in the vid is where its at, allways wanted to learn how, and will do at some point,

 

[Martyn]

Excellent post Robin and illustrates the different production methods very well.

I would be surprised if the new axe is made this way, perhaps it is and they only set dies up when they get to certain volume.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. They would probably be willing to make a limited run this way to see how the axe sells. If it sells well, I would think they would change over to the main line, which would make the axe cheaper and costs should come down. It might be the case that RM has stipulated that all of them will be fully handmade no matter how well they sell, which would keep the "quality" ...or rather the desirability ...constantly high, but the price constantly high too. Who knows?

On the point of pricing, here you can see Lurch sells the French Trade Tomahawk, a small 0.52kg axe made by GB using the traditional hammer and anvil method and it retails at £149.95
http://www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk/acatalog/Gransfors_Bruks.html

If the new RM axe is indeed made using the same method, then £95 is cheap for one of their axes made this way. If it's made on the main line, then it's expensive. It boils down to whether or not you believe what Woodlore have written on their website.

 

[Neumo]

I think that this is a great thread & covers several interesting areas. My thoughts are these:

Some GB axes are more expensive than the standard £50 ones.. Get over it.... No body seems to have a problem with the GB Carving axe being £80 or with their 're-enactor' type axes going for £130 plus. That lovely little mini-hatchet they for £70+ is hand forged & I dont begrudge paying a bit extra for a 'limited edition' GB axe. I only own one GB axes, a Wildlife Hatchet which is as big as I want to carry when I am out on the downs. Lovely axe & I may well get another one before I am done.
BUT...
It's when you put RM's Logo on something that costs a bit more than of their 'standard' £50 ones then some people get their backs up. We see the same arguments all the time on here; nice nit of kit that's twice the price of a good average one & off they go.... It's that old inverse snobbery again that is getting a bit tedious.

Axe Length: This new RM axe happens to be about the same size as an axe I am rehafting at the moment, which also has a 2lb head on it (Kent Pattern I think?). It will be interesting to to see how it handles in the field. I have cut down small (3"-4") trees with the wildlife hatchect but it's a lot more work than a SFA. This looks like am interesting size for a 'carry in' axe, if I was off somewhere for a few days . As has been said, most people using the big proper axes useually drive, horse or sail in...

I heard an industry rumour that RM is bringing out a Titanium SFA in the Spring...... Now that would be something to complain about....

 

[Xunil]

I really don't think there's much inverse snobbery or backs going up at all - there is a lot of speculation and discussion filling the void left by a dearth of information though.

Many of those who have responded in this thread indicate that they have one or more GB and/or counterpart products, and most folks acknowledge the simple fact that the prime goal of any company is to make money, and good luck to Woodlore and GB in their efforts to do so. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they should reduce their prices, but a lot of folks are curious about why the unit cost is significantly higher than similar standard run models.

On a purely personal note I have a particular interest in what makes this axe so very different from a design perspective and why, if the marketing hype is to be believed, it offers so much more. That comes from an end user's performance perspective - I am genuinely curious about what has been done to deliver more at the business end and I really don't care how much it costs beyond continued speculation of why it may cost more than its close relative stable mates.

The market dictates the value of anything sold and I imagine this axe will go like hot cakes and that the early run pieces will probably accrue in value somewhat, partly because it is a GB, and mostly because of its underlying endorsement and branding. Money will be made, and provided those buying are happy with their purchase who cares how much it costs ?

It can be a lot of fun to take apart the various 'possibles' involved and I think that's all we are seeing here.

 

[rancid badger]

Here ya go...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMERICAN-TOMA...lectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item230c5981a4

Ahh! yes.........well....er................I wondered if you'd spot that of course
I put it down to the cold weather, being 48, a blokey, 5ft 4" (official) and "having a senior moment"


Seriously; what a dumbo! I would have found it myself, .............well eventually:yelrotflm


cheers Martyn, I think I'll have a go at that

all thebest

Steve

 

[Shewie]

Another pic ...

Lol

 

[Trunks]

They really can't win at Woodlore can they? They say that including their cut the rrp should be £120. They see this as being too high and take the £25 hit on each axe.
After all, I'm sure the companies that pay most of your wages makes a profit off the goods they sell

 

[JonathanD]

For Godsake man, get it out ya big moose.

 

[Mesquite]

PMSL... you're such an axe tease Rich

 

[Trunks]

Big Tease!

 

[rancid badger]

Shewie!!!

Behave!

This is serious!

 

[Shewie]

Sorry Steve

 

[Retired Member southey]

Show us your whole chopper Rich!!

 

[rancid badger]

Well he has shown us the hole at least:bluThinki

I'm off

 

[British Red]

Is it me or is that countersinking off true?

 

[Mesquite]

Well he has shown us the hole at least:bluThinki

I'm off

And it's a very nice looking hole as well

 

[British Red]

Its not - Rich has a wonky hole where someone worked on the rim......

 

[Trunks]

Its not - Rich has a wonky hole where someone worked on the rim......

Fnarr fnarr!

 

[QDanT]

PS: I'm expecting at least a fiver from woodlore for continuing this thread!