Uncle Rays New Signature Axe

[rancid badger]

I wouldn't buy one, I can't see the point of it at all, it's way too expensive for what it is.
Simply slapping a "Ray Mears" logo on stuff, gives no one the right to add £25-£30 to the price, indeed, in my book, I'm afraid it significantly cheapens any item so adorned.

Actually; it's not the "RM" that puts me off so much but the addition of "bushcraft" I'm not sure why though

I recently bought a merino/possum beanie hat from woodlore and paid a good bit less than elsewhere.It really is an excellent piece of kit

If it had been "badged" with "RM" I might still have bought it. Add the "bushcraft" however, and they would have lost my business, simple as that.

PS: I'm expecting at least a fiver from woodlore for continuing this thread!

 

[PREPER]

I have read this thread and in summary:

You don’t have to buy one if you don’t want to.
Most of us would like to at least have a play with one.
Most of us have too much kit, but we don’t care.

PREPER……..

 

[Retired Member southey]

I have read this thread and in summary:

You don’t have to buy one if you don’t want to.
Most of us would like to at least have a play with one.
Most of us have too much kit, but we don’t care.

PREPER……..

absolutly,
In the style of the lyrical genius Tiny Temper "I got so much kit, I keep some at me aunts house!" PEACE!

 

[bojit]

Over on brittish blades they do this thing
called a passaround , it's where someone buys a
knife then sends it round the guys for them to try.

So if only someone had one these wonderfull new axes,
everyone could have a shot to realy put it through
a good field test.
A couple of weeks each would be enough before
sending it on to the next person on the list.

Craig..........

 

[Shewie]

Over on brittish blades they do this thing
called a passaround , it's where someone buys a
knife then sends it round the guys for them to try.

So if only someone had one these wonderfull new axes,
everyone could have a shot to realy put it through
a good field test.
A couple of weeks each would be enough before
sending it on to the next person on the list.

Craig..........

I'll have to get back to you on that one Craig

 

[Martyn]

Is that the Cold Steel Trail Hawk ?

I've often thought of trying one for its overall versatility but haven't got round to it yet. Maybe it's time I did.

Yes it is Barry.

Available here...
http://www.coldsteel-uk.com/store/Tomahawks-Throwing-Axes.html

In it's standard form, it's not great, it's covered in black paint and has a rough, flat ground edge....

But a little love works wonders with it. I stripped the paint off it and made a leather sheath for it...

Then re-profiled it to give it a nice convex edge....

Then treated the head with Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown Barrel Finish, which passivates the steel and gives it a deep brown patina...

Then oiled the handle with linseed oil and done. Around 600g all in, lighter than a GB Wildlife Hatchet.

I posted this video on the previous page, but it does give a very good illustration of how useful this axe is....

[video=youtube;6pvv97vPLHk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pvv97vPLHk[/video]

 

[Xunil]

Thanks for that.

It seems to have a lot of grunt for the weight, and I particularly like the idea of one head with interchangeable handles where different lengths effectively turn it from a lighter weight tool into one that can potentially punch way above.

One head with two or perhaps three handles in different lengths and suddenly a single tool can be anything from a small and light hand axe through almost into limbing axe territory, not to mention the added flexibility of that 'anvil' poll or multitasking as a wedge.

I'm off to order a couple in to experiment with them

On a related note I wonder how much experimenting folks might have done with their axes. As an example I put a 2 1/4 lb Elwell head onto a 24" off the peg Faithfull Hickory handle a few months ago but I lopped just under two inches off the head end of the handle. That 2 1/4 lb Elwell head cost me three quid at a car boot sale, the Faithfull handle was about a tenner and there was an hour or two of work involved. That weight head (with a very sharp reworked convexed edge) on the resulting 22" handle was a joy to use - super-efficient with a ton of effortless cutting power, and still light enough to cart around. It knocked the socks off my Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe and was about on a level with my Scandinavian Forest Axe, but it offered far more bang for buck if we take its total cost of under £15 into account...

Anyway, back to my trail hawk order...

 

[rancid badger]

Oooh I really like the look of that, Martyn

If they'd taken paypal, I'd have been tempted to give one of those a go!

never mind, just have to work at it!

cheers

R.B.

 

[JonathanD]

Woodlore have actually addressed the price issue.....

While other Gransfors axes are mass-produced in presses, the Wilderness Axe is hand-forged in small quantities by Gransfors' experienced blacksmiths. Of course, this process takes much longer - what Gransfors would normally produce in around 4 hours takes an entire week to forge by hand. Inevitably, this brings a higher price tag; while the Wilderness Axe should retail for over £120.00, we have kept our price at £95.00 to make it as affordable as possible

 

[_scorpio_]

utter rubbish, they hand forge all there axes and boast about it! and ask cegga if it takes a week to make one axe head by hand, because i bet it doesnt!

 

[Martyn]

Oooh I really like the look of that, Martyn

If they'd taken paypal, I'd have been tempted to give one of those a go!

never mind, just have to work at it!

cheers

R.B.

Here ya go...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMERICAN-TOMA...lectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item230c5981a4

 

[JonathanD]

utter rubbish, they hand forge all there axes and boast about it! and ask cegga if it takes a week to make one axe head by hand, because i bet it doesnt!

Actually, they do use a press on the main range of axes. I've been on a tour of the factory and seen it myself.

 

[Xunil]

... what Gransfors would normally produce in around 4 hours takes an entire week to forge by hand. Inevitably, this brings a higher price tag ..

I think the Gransfors smiths need a serious pay hike if the axe costs £95 finished and takes a week to forge.

It will be made in smaller numbers than the other axes in their range, but in exactly the same way and with the same tooling. Anything else is marketing spin otherwise it would be directly (and far more accurately) reflected in the price.

How much do we all expect to be paid for a week's work ?

This is not a dig at JonathanD at all (apologies if it comes over that way) but it is a poke at the source of such a tenuous and unbelievable explanation of moderately increased cost over a more standard model from the same manufacturer.

Buying goods from overseas for resale in the UK involves shipping costs (to the UK) and adding VAT at UK rates when the item is resold, not to mention the variables brought into the mix by a sometimes wildly fluctuating exchange rate. If any UK company is selling something sourced overseas for around the £100 mark they can't have paid more than about £40 - £50 max at its point of origin, otherwise there would be no point in selling them. Where would the profit come from ?

By the time you pack the item for delivery to the person who ordered it, process, administrate and otherwise handle their order, you'd have to shift huge numbers to make it worth your while.

There are three basic business models:

1. high volume, low unit profit

2. low volume, high unit profit

3. high volume, high unit profit

Numbers 1 and 2 are the most common.

Obviously all of this is speculation based on simple logic applied to the resale of goods in the UK that are sourced overseas.

An axe doesn't take a week to forge by hand anyway, unless you only work a one day week...

And yes, I still want to see one in the flesh (so to speak )

 

[Martyn]

utter rubbish, they hand forge all there axes and boast about it! and ask cegga if it takes a week to make one axe head by hand, because i bet it doesnt!

I'm not defending Woodlore's pricing in any way, but they do have different production methods. Their standard axes are made in production runs and while they are technically hand made, they use some fairly industrial processes, including dies, to streamline the process. Here are some pics of the Gransfors factory production line taken during a factory visit (they let anyone interested visit the line and take pictures)....

They also do make runs of non-standard models with traditional hammer and anvil. Some of the historical pieces including the trade hawks are made this way and the pricing is much higher because of it...

Lars at work...

I have no idea if the new RM axe is made this way, but they certainly do have different production methods and the models that are slightly more hand made than the other hand made axes are more expensive.

 

[JonathanD]

Cheers Xunil. Your post makes it look like that is a direct quote from me. It is actually a quote from Woodlore....

While other Gransfors axes are mass-produced in presses, the Wilderness Axe is hand-forged in small quantities by Gransfors' experienced blacksmiths. Of course, this process takes much longer - what Gransfors would normally produce in around 4 hours takes an entire week to forge by hand. Inevitably, this brings a higher price tag; while the Wilderness Axe should retail for over £120.00, we have kept our price at £95.00 to make it as affordable as possible

I don't think Woodlore are suggesting that it takes an entire week of solid work to produce one axe head, rather that the entire process of making them takes a week. It's like Rolex watches that take a year to produce from start to finish. Obviously work on one watch doesn't require a whole years of solid labour.

 

[_scorpio_]

Actually, they do use a press on the main range of axes. I've been on a tour of the factory and seen it myself.

really? do they still do some hand forging or are GB axes completely machine made?
i still dont believe the week to make thing though or they would have to have been making these for a year to keep up with the first week of orders!

 

[JonathanD]

really? do they still do some hand forging or are GB axes completely machine made?
i still dont believe the week to make thing though or they would have to have been making these for a year to keep up with the first week of orders!

They use machines in the process of making them as can be seen in Martyns post. The entirely handmade versions don't and they are higher priced than the standard line which uses the presses.

They do say on the tour that an entirely handmade axe head takes a week or more to produce from start to finish. It is true. This doesn't mean that the maker spends all his week making that one axe head though, rather the process as a whole.

Again, I'm not justifying the Woodlore price, but their quote. Gransfors will back that statement up.

 

[Tjurved]

I'm not doing bushcraft like I'm getting paid for it so for me neither efficiency in portability, weight or chopping speed is important. I choose the axe I find the most fun to use which is a silly heavy axe with a short handle and a swedish eye head with a handle I have made myself from a tree I once fell with another axe...

Ray is great and I understand that he needs to earn money on bushcraft.

 

[Shewie]

There's some vids of the factory here if anyone hasn't seen them ...

[video=vimeo;3518488]http://vimeo.com/3518488[/video]

http://vimeo.com/3518488

Big boys toys

 

[JonathanD]

If any one gets the chance to visit the factory, I highly recommend it. You can even have a hand in finishing the axe you want to buy if you are lucky.