Ventile - your opinions

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

Hi all

I've opted to spend on :

Liathach smock & double layer Braemar smock
By Hilltrek (no connection to Co.)

Just wondering if I'm making right choice - find gore-tex sweaty & plasticy !!!

What's your verdicts on the above ?? Ventile ??

Cheers Jod

 

[John Fenna]

I am well known for loving Ventile!
I have several different tops both single and double and trousers as well...

 

[Dave]

I've seen the braemar smock, and it looks great. Not seen the Liathach smock, but have admired the one its based on, the Foinaven smock. Dont know anything about the nikwax liner though. You'll have to wear it a bit then post a review.

 

[treadlightly]

Oh where to begin on this one? Best do a search for ventile and goretex and you'll get most of the points of view.

 

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

Please tell me more john !!!

I have some gore-tex, but its too 'fake' for me. I wear wool, moleskin & cotton
Ventile would be ideal !!! I don't want the opposing sides -its waterproof' & 'its not waterproof' going at each other.

Is it waterproof ??? If its used to make firehoses, you don't want a leaky hose
I understand it can last 20/30 years & Hilltrek have a good reputation & have V kindly done me a deal - as I'm supporting a local company

I would like a no 'BS' verdict - Jod

 

[British Red]

I love the stuff - I hate plastic stuff as well.

Is it waterproof? Pretty close. The fibres swell when wet and lock together. Some little damp gets through - but wear a wool shirt under it and you don't feel it.

Is it as waterproof as a bin liner? Nope. But it doesn't rain most of the time and a bin liner makes you wet with sweat anyway - and cold and clammy. I have a a SASSkit smock in Ventile. I string barbed wire in it, shoot in it, prune blackthorne, dig ditches, all manner of horrible tasks. Its years old, got a few holes and tears. Just stitch a ventile patch on the rip and carry on

Its not as waterproof as Goretx - but its tougher, easier to care for, doesn't de-laminate or stop working when dirty and MUCH more comfortable to wear for "general duties".

If you want to get mountaineering, get goretex. If you want to do dirty, tough outside stuff, get Ventile.

Red

 

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

Thanks Red

I knew bout the expansion of fibres, use of RAF flight gear, fire hoses, etc .....

I'm more natural fibres type & the muddy tough side of outdoor living

 

[Shewie]

I wear a single layer ventile smock but one which has a waterproof lining, I get the best of both worlds then.

I find double layer too much when wet but single layer only about 85-90% waterproof

Mine has lasted a good while getting knocked about in woodland camps and canoe trips, a waterproof shell like Goretex or eVent would have been wrecked a long time ago with the same treatment, I save those for the hills where there's less spiky things.

 

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

I have a us ecwcs gore-tex parka, a Dutch army gore-tex parka (best I ever bought)
But run hot in them - time to try new things !!! Both smocks : Braemar & Liathach look the business

 

[Shewie]

A bit more spendy than the Braemar but a similar cut, plus the extra waterproof liner ..

http://www.countryinnovation.com/clothing/jackets/kestrel-smock-1.html

They've gone up in price a fair bit since I got mine but I'd recommend them to anyone

 

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

The Liathach is single layer ventile with nikwax pump liner & heavier weight ventile & Braemar is x2 layer ventile
With all extras on both smocks for £590 !!!! That's with big ole discount

 

[Shewie]

I'd go for the lined one if it was me, the cardboard effect with two layers would bug me I think, never tried one though

 

[Barn Owl]

Having used both double and single ventile and the country innovation style, i prefer a single layer.

The lined style is too warm for me and the double a tad overkill if on the move at pace.

Below the single layer i can wear a single base layer and/or a cotton or wool shirt or a buffalo shirt, all depending on weather.

My single is a Hilltrek Braemar fyi

 

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

Thanks Barn Owl !! Its a once in a lifetime spend
I think the Braemar & Liathach will do just fine & all in natural fibres

I was leaning towards using over a wool shirt & pullover or Montane extreme smock in the Highlands worst !!

 

[kiltedpict]

I've got a custom Braemar (HillTrek are just up the road) and its double based on their advice. I'm very happy with it although it does stiffen a bit in heavy rain.

I kind of wish I'd gone for single now though, especially as I'm living in my montane extreme smock at the mo- could chuck the Ventile over the montane!!!

 

[John Fenna]

I love the stuff - I hate plastic stuff as well.

Is it waterproof? Pretty close. The fibres swell when wet and lock together. Some little damp gets through - but wear a wool shirt under it and you don't feel it.

Is it as waterproof as a bin liner? Nope. But it doesn't rain most of the time and a bin liner makes you wet with sweat anyway - and cold and clammy. I have a a SASSkit smock in Ventile. I string barbed wire in it, shoot in it, prune blackthorne, dig ditches, all manner of horrible tasks. Its years old, got a few holes and tears. Just stitch a ventile patch on the rip and carry on

Its not as waterproof as Goretx - but its tougher, easier to care for, doesn't de-laminate or stop working when dirty and MUCH more comfortable to wear for "general duties".

If you want to get mountaineering, get goretex. If you want to do dirty, tough outside stuff, get Ventile.

Red

That pretty much sums it up for me
I live in the stuff and only use other jackets when work demands it!

 

[treadlightly]

I have had various ventile jackets over the years including a Hilltrek single layer hooded smock (is that the the Braemar?) and their double layer cycling jacket. I currently own a SASS ventile-like smock and a Survival Aids single layer windshirt. I also have a standalone Cioch pump liner (think Paramo) which in theory could go under the ventile but in practice never does.

Here is my experience of them.

First thing, they are not waterproof. Neither the single nor double layer. In cooler weather this is not a problem as a wool shirt or similar underneath sops up the moisture that gets through without causing any discomfort. However, in summer, if wearing under a thin wool baselayer, you do feel the moisture ingress and it can be uncomfortable.

They do stiffen when very wet and that can feel uncomfortable and cold to the touch, so not so pleasant. Cold and dry is probably their ideal weather.

Tbh if it is peeing down I leave my ventile at home most times. I actually prefer dense wool in those conditions or maybe an oilskin if I am not moving around much.

As to its toughness, well, it is tough, but not that tough. I have snagged my SASS smock once or twice but it is easily repaired. Cuffs do fray after a while. There is tougher cotton out there but obviously it does not deal with wet as well.

Overall, a good all-rounder, probably the best all-rounder that natural fibres can offer, especially when combined with wool.

But by no means perfect.

 

[dwardo]

Had my Hiltrek single smock for about 7 years now and whilst its showing some signs of age cuffs fraying etc its still in great nic.
I think most go wrong thinking its a "single solution" to all weathers which it is not. It has its place like gortex has its place.

Its favourite place is in the woods away from direct rain. Its hard wearing, very comfortable, very quiet. I have taken it to the hills in winter and summer where it has been great but I would never take it in place of a waterproof layer. It excelled in the cold snowy hills weather where its comfort and breath ability shone through.
Dont get me wrong through if it started throwing it down the waterproof would come out.

 

[Tiley]

Here is my experience of them.

First thing, they are not waterproof. Neither the single nor double layer. In cooler weather this is not a problem as a wool shirt or similar underneath sops up the moisture that gets through without causing any discomfort. However, in summer, if wearing under a thin wool baselayer, you do feel the moisture ingress and it can be uncomfortable.

They do stiffen when very wet and that can feel uncomfortable and cold to the touch, so not so pleasant. Cold and dry is probably their ideal weather.

Tbh if it is peeing down I leave my ventile at home most times. I actually prefer dense wool in those conditions or maybe an oilskin if I am not moving around much.

As to its toughness, well, it is tough, but not that tough. I have snagged my SASS smock once or twice but it is easily repaired. Cuffs do fray after a while. There is tougher cotton out there but obviously it does not deal with wet as well.

Overall, a good all-rounder, probably the best all-rounder that natural fibres can offer, especially when combined with wool.

But by no means perfect.

Absolutely. Ventile with a liner does work well in the wet but can be uncomfortably hot. The only thing that I've found that does work quite well is the Falkland jacket (I can't remember who makes them but it is a British company...). There are two things about Ventile that I don't really like: the 'cardboardiness' of the fabric when wet and the time it takes for it to dry. That said, it is the preferred option whatever the weather as it works well enough in a wide range of conditions.

As Treadlightly says, it is in no way perfect; that is true of every single outdoor fabric that tries, with varying degrees of success, to juggle the waterproof/breathability/durability conundrum. Every fabric is a compromise and one makes one's choice according to need, use, budget, cut, features or even colour.

 

[Ex Member LoneGunnman]

Mmm some say same as gore-tex & some say less than !!! I own a Dutch army gore-tex (which is bombproof) & only gore-tex that ever kept me dry

I'm really grateful for everyone's input !!!

I'm a natural fibres man, so a weather proof/resistant & breathable fabric is worth a go
Soft, hardwearing, weather resistant - I'm happy
The Liathach has the Nikwax liner in & I opted for thicker ventile

Let's see what we'll see