Woodlore Woodsman shirt reduced.
- Thread starter Aliwren
- Start date
Ahjno -
Thank you for this insight, it clears up an important point!
I will still be waiting until the shirts are to be found in our Charity shops - dammit they are "used" after all.......
Also is it true that having RMs name on a GB axe acts in the same way as keeping them in a pyramid ie keeping the edge sharp forever, making them cut better and more acurately and also imparting some of RMs Godliness to the user?
Thank you for this insight, it clears up an important point!
I will still be waiting until the shirts are to be found in our Charity shops - dammit they are "used" after all.......
Also is it true that having RMs name on a GB axe acts in the same way as keeping them in a pyramid ie keeping the edge sharp forever, making them cut better and more acurately and also imparting some of RMs Godliness to the user?
A
appletree_man
Guest
£95???? Amazing.I don't think I own a shirt that cost more than £15.
I like Ray, but for someone who claims he was too poor to buy outdoor stuff in his early days, he's fair making up for it now
Wow bargain!
- Would this be compatible with the ray mears (tm) woodcraft trousers and headgear?
- Can the pockets carry any old money or only those coins with Rays rotund face on them?
edited to say:
I've also found a sale on some authentic ray mears woodcraft toilet paper. be quick folks crazy rays big sale can't last forever - he must be craaaaazy!
- Would this be compatible with the ray mears (tm) woodcraft trousers and headgear?
- Can the pockets carry any old money or only those coins with Rays rotund face on them?
edited to say:
I've also found a sale on some authentic ray mears woodcraft toilet paper. be quick folks crazy rays big sale can't last forever - he must be craaaaazy!
People amaze me, they bleat about paying £100+ for a well made shirt, from a known source, yet most would sell their first born to get an ordinary knife from that very same source for 4 times the price of the shirt.
Im sorry but the price is what the market will bear. Hundreds of people are willing to pay £1000 for a coat, or £500 for a handbag, and by People, I mean normal folk with more money than sense, not just rich people.
Why shouldnt Ray cash in. neither his money nor his fame is going to last his lifetime and you cant go to the bank manager in10 years time and ask for a mortgage on the premise that you were once famous.
Normal everyday folk pay £60 for a football shirt in their teams colour, knowing that the next year the teams colours will change requiring a new outlay of cash. At least with Rays shirt, you might get a year or two real bushcrafting out of it.
All those who go on about getting Bargain cheap shirts for a tenner, have you ever thought what it took to make your Bargain shirt, do you care that the people making the shirt probably earn about a dollar a week. Do you care that the pollutants used in the manufacturing of the shirts and dyes are probably pumped directly in to the only available local water source. Do you care that what it takes to make your shirts, the cloth, the dyes, or even just the plastic that its wrapped in, are contributing to the over all rubbish dump that the world is becoming. You only have to check the cost of ethically sourced 100% cotton tee shirt to know that, three for a tenner from Primark, is not that much of a bargain, especially if your kids and grandkids are the ones who will be paying the true price
Im sorry but the price is what the market will bear. Hundreds of people are willing to pay £1000 for a coat, or £500 for a handbag, and by People, I mean normal folk with more money than sense, not just rich people.
Why shouldnt Ray cash in. neither his money nor his fame is going to last his lifetime and you cant go to the bank manager in10 years time and ask for a mortgage on the premise that you were once famous.
Normal everyday folk pay £60 for a football shirt in their teams colour, knowing that the next year the teams colours will change requiring a new outlay of cash. At least with Rays shirt, you might get a year or two real bushcrafting out of it.
All those who go on about getting Bargain cheap shirts for a tenner, have you ever thought what it took to make your Bargain shirt, do you care that the people making the shirt probably earn about a dollar a week. Do you care that the pollutants used in the manufacturing of the shirts and dyes are probably pumped directly in to the only available local water source. Do you care that what it takes to make your shirts, the cloth, the dyes, or even just the plastic that its wrapped in, are contributing to the over all rubbish dump that the world is becoming. You only have to check the cost of ethically sourced 100% cotton tee shirt to know that, three for a tenner from Primark, is not that much of a bargain, especially if your kids and grandkids are the ones who will be paying the true price
I agree making money isn't a crime . doesn't mean i have to buy into it or indeed the marketed aspirational nature of this "ray mears" branded 100% cotton shirt.
Your rant re: football shirts and third world production etc seems unfounded - Don't presume that you are the only person with a moral conscience when it comes to such things.
cheers
Your rant re: football shirts and third world production etc seems unfounded - Don't presume that you are the only person with a moral conscience when it comes to such things.
cheers
Uh..... Tadpole....
Try charity shops for your kit like I mentioned......cheap AND ETHICAL, NOT A RIP OFF OR SLAVE LABOUR OR INSTANT POLUTION!
Recycling good clothing is the way forward - as is recycling waste.
Try charity shops for your kit like I mentioned......cheap AND ETHICAL, NOT A RIP OFF OR SLAVE LABOUR OR INSTANT POLUTION!
Recycling good clothing is the way forward - as is recycling waste.
In my opinion Tadpole is a lot closer to the mark than many of the posts here.
John makes a good point regarding charity shops, but I don't think that Tadpole was referring to that, just responding to the people who were claiming they could buy other shirts cheaper.
As shirts go, money and what you get for your money isn't especially related. Ray has a relatively limited opportunity to make money from his TV fame, it won't last forever, and he should in all common sense be charging what the market will bear. I don't view the current price drop as anything other than a reflection that he has milked the initial demand. I don't use the term milked in a bad way, though I have no doubt that many here will view it as almost a criminal concept.
John makes a good point regarding charity shops, but I don't think that Tadpole was referring to that, just responding to the people who were claiming they could buy other shirts cheaper.
As shirts go, money and what you get for your money isn't especially related. Ray has a relatively limited opportunity to make money from his TV fame, it won't last forever, and he should in all common sense be charging what the market will bear. I don't view the current price drop as anything other than a reflection that he has milked the initial demand. I don't use the term milked in a bad way, though I have no doubt that many here will view it as almost a criminal concept.
A
appletree_man
Guest
People amaze me, they bleat about paying £100+ for a well made shirt, from a known source, yet most would sell their first born to get an ordinary knife from that very same source for 4 times the price of the shirt.
Im but the price is what the market will bear. Hundreds of people are willing to pay £1000 for a coat, or £500 for a handbag, and by People, I mean normal folk with more money than sense, not just rich people.
Why shouldnt Ray cash in. neither his money nor his fame is going to last his lifetime and you cant go to the bank manager in10 years time and ask for a mortgage on the premise that you were once famous.
Normal everyday folk pay £60 for a football shirt in their teams colour, knowing that the next year the teams colours will change requiring a new outlay of cash. At least with Rays shirt, you might get a year or two real bushcrafting out of it.
All those who go on about getting Bargain cheap shirts for a tenner, have you ever thought what it took to make your Bargain shirt, do you care that the people making the shirt probably earn about a dollar a week. Do you care that the pollutants used in the manufacturing of the shirts and dyes are probably pumped directly in to the only available local water source. Do you care that what it takes to make your shirts, the cloth, the dyes, or even just the plastic that its wrapped in, are contributing to the over all rubbish dump that the world is becoming. You only have to check the cost of ethically sourced 100% cotton tee shirt to know that, three for a tenner from Primark, is not that much of a bargain, especially if your kids and grandkids are the ones who will be paying the true price
Depends on the person, I'd never pay out that sort of cash for any of those things. And all of my clothes, (bar my pants) are made in the UK. My gear is mostly made in the UK, USA, & Europe.
Poking a bit of fun at Ray's inflated prices won't stop anyone buying them. I would guess that most of his buyers go straight to his site after watching the programme.
I get nearly all my kit and clothes from Charity shops, so I know the ethics of recycle reuse. I was merely point out that; a bargain is not necessarily a bargain when the true cost is taken into account.
I am not sure how many forums and discussion boards you belong to, but the use of all capitals is considered as shouting, which in this case is quiet unwarranted and rude.
Just because it has a label that says made in the USA does not mean that it was. The G.A.P is famous for that very claim. Because it said on the label, made in the USA people thought that the garment was. No the only thing that was actually made in the US was the label; the rest was made in Northern Mariana Islands, a commonwealth of the USA, where there are no labour laws. 20% of the clothes sold in the top retail outlets have their clothes made there, including Arrow, Liz Claiborne, The Gap, Montgomery Ward, Geoffrey Beene, Eddie Bauer and Levi's.
I agree with tadpole. Who cares how much Ray's shirts cost. Have a look around, lots of shirts cost around the £100 pound mark in high street shops, lots of shirts cost more. Some people like to spend lots on clothes, some people spend little. No need to get offensive and make make personal comments on Ray's physique, he is a good man and hurting no one by earning some money where the opportunity arises.
A
appletree_man
Guest
Tadpole
The capitals were not meant as SHOUTING just EMPHASIS.
I am not all that web savvy as I find that sitting in front of a screen less enjoyable than being in the outdoors, so this is the only site I go on.....
Please acept my apologies if I offended.
John
The capitals were not meant as SHOUTING just EMPHASIS.
I am not all that web savvy as I find that sitting in front of a screen less enjoyable than being in the outdoors, so this is the only site I go on.....
Please acept my apologies if I offended.
John
However, just to be contentious
A three card monte mans luck will not last forever and one day he will be caught.
Does this mean that his ripping gullible people off in the mean time is ethical?
A three card monte mans luck will not last forever and one day he will be caught.
Does this mean that his ripping gullible people off in the mean time is ethical?
Define "strange"...
I have worked as a designer (including for Craghoppers and Snowdon Clothing), had my "Own Label" range of outdoor clothing, retailed outdoor clothing and equipment, review outdoor clothing in three outdoor magazines at the moment (and many others in the past) and belive I understand the concept of "reasonable profit".
I feel that anything beyond "reasonable" to be a rip-off, be it for footie strip or any other "label" clothing, and is preying on the cupidity of the public.
I would have thought this a fair interpretation of "rip-off".
A lot of people involved in selling do this kind of thing, but I do not feel that this makes it any more ethical....
A willing mug is still a mug in my book.
This is all I am going to say on this matter, thank you and goodnight, time is pressing as I am off on exped in a couple of days and need to check my gear over (to make sure I have all the right labels)!
:tapedshut
I have worked as a designer (including for Craghoppers and Snowdon Clothing), had my "Own Label" range of outdoor clothing, retailed outdoor clothing and equipment, review outdoor clothing in three outdoor magazines at the moment (and many others in the past) and belive I understand the concept of "reasonable profit".
I feel that anything beyond "reasonable" to be a rip-off, be it for footie strip or any other "label" clothing, and is preying on the cupidity of the public.
I would have thought this a fair interpretation of "rip-off".
A lot of people involved in selling do this kind of thing, but I do not feel that this makes it any more ethical....
A willing mug is still a mug in my book.
This is all I am going to say on this matter, thank you and goodnight, time is pressing as I am off on exped in a couple of days and need to check my gear over (to make sure I have all the right labels)!
:tapedshut
Being absolutely fair about this, I believe John is more qualified to comment on outdoor clothing than most people here. I have read and enjoyed his magazine product reviews and articles for many years. Someone who professionally reviews items month after month has had more clothes through his hands than even the most dedicated kit junky.
On a personal note (and one on which, as a few here know, I am able to comment), the ethics of sourcing is an absolute minefield and ultimately a personal matter. If one only sources from Western States, one refuses to buy from third world organisations that can and do offer first rate employment opportunities that provide a far higher standard of living than anyone else in the local or national economy. I for one do not believe that refusing valuable employment to the worlds most vulnerable people is a good thing. Neither however is sanctioning exploitation. There are many bodies that attempt to provide a measure of reassurance when sourcing from Fair Trade to the FSC. There can, and have, been abuses of such labels of course. Many organisations try very very hard on the ethical sourcing front - some you might not expect (B&Q spring to mind). This can include personally inspecting every factory used. Even this is not fool proof.
The ethics of sourcing is a difficult, personal choice. I can, and do, exercise care in where my income is spent, but I cannot pretend to be perfect or not make mistakes. I can also empathise with people whose choices are more restricted. A person I met recently showed me a budget breakdown which in efect said "buy cheap, non-ethical food and have heat, buy organic ethical food and have cold kids in Winter". I for one will not condemn either choice and am thankful I do not have to make it. I learned in that case that, whilst it may be acceptabe to point out the ethics of a product, it is not my role to condemn another persons choices since I am not in posssion of all the factors that colour their choices.
On the subject of RM, I have never met the man. I have purchased from his site (and did not pay much of a premium on the products in question). He offers a great service to many in that, whatever he charges, he generally offers top notch products. Others offer, frankly, inferior goods. To many, the knoweldge that Ray puts his name to the products he stocks, means they are sure of getting a good product. They are happy to pay for that.
I personally would not buy that shirt, but then I am harder on my clothes than I would want to be with such a price tag. To those that can afford such a garment, desire it and are happy to pay that for their shirts (and if you think thats dear, take a walk into Jermyn street some time), good luck and enjoy your purchase.
Red
On a personal note (and one on which, as a few here know, I am able to comment), the ethics of sourcing is an absolute minefield and ultimately a personal matter. If one only sources from Western States, one refuses to buy from third world organisations that can and do offer first rate employment opportunities that provide a far higher standard of living than anyone else in the local or national economy. I for one do not believe that refusing valuable employment to the worlds most vulnerable people is a good thing. Neither however is sanctioning exploitation. There are many bodies that attempt to provide a measure of reassurance when sourcing from Fair Trade to the FSC. There can, and have, been abuses of such labels of course. Many organisations try very very hard on the ethical sourcing front - some you might not expect (B&Q spring to mind). This can include personally inspecting every factory used. Even this is not fool proof.
The ethics of sourcing is a difficult, personal choice. I can, and do, exercise care in where my income is spent, but I cannot pretend to be perfect or not make mistakes. I can also empathise with people whose choices are more restricted. A person I met recently showed me a budget breakdown which in efect said "buy cheap, non-ethical food and have heat, buy organic ethical food and have cold kids in Winter". I for one will not condemn either choice and am thankful I do not have to make it. I learned in that case that, whilst it may be acceptabe to point out the ethics of a product, it is not my role to condemn another persons choices since I am not in posssion of all the factors that colour their choices.
On the subject of RM, I have never met the man. I have purchased from his site (and did not pay much of a premium on the products in question). He offers a great service to many in that, whatever he charges, he generally offers top notch products. Others offer, frankly, inferior goods. To many, the knoweldge that Ray puts his name to the products he stocks, means they are sure of getting a good product. They are happy to pay for that.
I personally would not buy that shirt, but then I am harder on my clothes than I would want to be with such a price tag. To those that can afford such a garment, desire it and are happy to pay that for their shirts (and if you think thats dear, take a walk into Jermyn street some time), good luck and enjoy your purchase.
Red
first off, just for the record "I am not having a go at John,"
On a personal level, I would rather buy a tee-shirt or anthing for that matter, from a charity shop, knowing that it is better off on my shelves getting used, than in some landfill. If not a charity shop, then a shop that I 'know' is not profiting from sweatshop labour, in fact with the few pounds a week that I have spare, (and I do mean a few pounds) Id rather save up for a year and pay £100 for some kit, knowing that it is:-
Fit for purpose (tested to destruction by an expert or three)
Not made by sweatshop or slave labour (yes I do mean slave labour)
Going to be a good investment, not only for me but also for my family
I'd do that rather than pay half that for a bit of kit that will do the job for a few weeks, months, or a year or so and then quickly have to be replaced.
Any fan of Terry Pratchett will know this example.
Is it better to spend £20 on a pair of boot that might last you a year, or £120 on a pair of boots that last you 10 years?
many people are not fortunate enough not to have even the £120 spare not even if they save for a whole year, so they have to spend that £20 a year on boots that need replacing every year. In the long run the "cheap boots" cost £200, not so much of a bargain.
What cost is it to the poor people, having to turn out boots at £20 a pair, you can almost guarantee that they are not getting a living wage, or not a wage where they have a reasonable standard of living.
(This is an example, using boots I know that you can get many decent boots for less than a hundred and twenty quid)
I am hard on my kit; Im heavy (read fat) and suffer from Dyspraxia (poor motor coordination, read clumsy) so Id rather know that the stuff I buy is up to the job, even charity shop stuff. I mean why waste even £3 on a pair of combats only to find they have the seat ripped out of them.
I feel that anything beyond "reasonable" to be a rip-off, be it for footie strip or any other "label" clothing, and is preying on the cupidity of the public.
I would have thought this a fair interpretation of "rip-off".
A lot of people involved in selling do this kind of thing, but I do not feel that this makes it any more ethical....
A willing mug is still a mug in my book.
This is all I am going to say on this matter, thank you and goodnight, time is pressing as I am off on exped in a couple of days and need to check my gear over (to make sure I have all the right labels)!
:tapedshut
I'm not trying to draw you out of your current 'tapedshut' position but choosing to reply to this post in the thread because I, on many levels, agree very much with what you have posted, though I also see a extra level here that may ( or indeed may not ) be being missed.
The football shirt thing I ( even though cheaper than the RM shirt ) I see as more of a rip off as it's a mass market item, especially when you consider the basic pattern for all teams is the same and it's only the colours and any extra patches that change.
On the other hand the RM shirt is almost certainly a low volume run ( not sure if Mr Mears has ever produced his own gear, excepting the Pyramid Eco hammock set ) and therefore the expenses of design and tooling up ( well at least for the exclusive RM buttons
liason in setting up the deals, storage etc all need to be covered. If the company stratergy is to try to recoup this with an initial expensive price, presumable only being bought by people who can afford it, then slowly drop the price I wouldn't consider it a rip off at all.As it stands it well out of my price range, for even a very good shirt, I'll reserve my judgment till sometime next year before agreeing/disagreeing on the rip off stance. For now I can only say it's an expensive shirt that may be worth it to those that can spare those sort of funds, unfortunately I'm not one of them so not going to be able to find out any time soon.
Enjoy your exped.
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