Wild animal fats vs wild plant fats?

[Broch]

If I had the choice in his scenario I would choice the peanut butter.

Truth is, I've never found peanut butter out foraging when I wanted it

 

[Broch]

I am no nutritionist, but I would assume that you would have to consume a lot more plant material to achieve the same level of fat, proteins etc as you would get from a much smaller amount of meat. However, hunting/trapping burns far more calories than foraging. If it was a survival situation, I'd be happy to get what I could find.

Not necessarily, an awful lot of time 'hunting' is spent quiet stalking (no more energy than foraging) or sitting waiting. The highest calorific use would be carrying your carcass home but, by then, you've got the resource to replenish what you burn.

 

[nigelp]

Truth is, I've never found peanut butter out foraging when I wanted it

The OP presented the two choices. I’m choosing peanut butter.
He didn’t specify what sort of survival situation but I took it that if he had given two choices, then it was one where each was available.
Truth is I’ve never ‘found’ animals when out foraging (that I’d want someone to eat).

 

[1 pot hunter]

The question is based off a hypothetical survival situation. So the answer is easy…

Animal fats for the simple fact that any plant fat requires processing. The duck fat is readily available from the source. Kill it, cook it, eat it. No animal is 100% fat, so you will of course have protein, vitamins etc as well.

How much processing and work is required to produce the same calorific value of a plant based fat?

The simple fact is that in a survival scenario, animal fats offer the most bang for your buck. Plus there are other bonuses such as having bone, fur and sinew to use for other applications too. Not much you can do with a pile of empty nutshells.

U can just eat nuts whole for fat though but you have a great point

 

[nigelp]

So whilst I'm sure people do exist and as you say 'thrive' ( define thrive? ) on those diets I'm not convinced that they are optimised or maybe as optimal as they could be.

Define optimised/optimal?

 

[TLM]

Stuart's essay on the advantages of sitting down, making a brew, and having a think about what do about the situation is probably still very sound

Well, that is always good advice except when one has to get out asap. But I kind of get the drift, in most cases sitting and getting adrenaline down and then thinking is the proper way and having a cup of green tea with ginger seldom hurts.

 

[nigelp]

U can just eat nuts whole for fat though but you have a great point

So what did you mean when you started the thread? Survival or general food consumption?

 

[1 pot hunter]

Jains, buddhists, many South Indians....all vegetarians, all happily thriving.....living good active healthy lives and breeding successfully. Most are however lacto vegetarians.

Robson Valley said it; the body uses what it gets.

It's fine to say 'kill something' and eat it, but the reality is that it's not that easy to catch something.
Passive snares ? fine, find your prey first, make your snare, sit hungry while you hope you've set it up in the right place.
I know folks who 'take for the pot'. They all, without exception, try to have stuff stored in the freezer because even those who do it often, often don't catch.

So, survival situation ? I'd say keep your options open and don't focus just on catching something.

Don’t they get cholestrol from milk a animal product ?

 

[1 pot hunter]

So what did you mean when you started the thread? Survival or general food consumption?

Survival

 

[nigelp]

Survival

So what was the need for testosterone?

 

[Toddy]

Good point

Thing is though, you don't really milk a cow during a 'survival situation'

As TeeDee said, the conversation is kind of complex, but then so is the scenario.
Survival depends on utilising what you have to best advantage, and that might well be the nuts on the tree at hand, rather than making a net/line/snare and finding a suitable area with prey species, iimmc ?

As to which is better for you, animal or nut ? it doesn't matter so long as you have sufficient.
The body takes what it can from both. Humanity is at it's core omnivorous.....perhaps though there's a huge bit missing from the discussion. Humanity is omnivorous because humanity can process a heck of a lot of organic matter and make it digestible simply by cooking it.

Raw nuts we can eat as is, and we do fairly well digesting them so long as they're well chewed. We don't digest raw meat all that well though, and we have to be careful about pathogens too.

 

[TLM]

On short term survival I guess the origin of the oil does not matter if it is within the range a human can handle. There are some fatty acid esters in some deep sea fish that cannot be broken down and eating them causes kind of interesting effects (had to try out a small portion, fortunately only a small one), they taste delicious ...

 

[1 pot hunter]

So what was the need for testosterone?

Better testosterone levels would give u sharper thought processes n more energy n vitality to perform difficult tasks in a bad situation like a survival scenario

 

[1 pot hunter]

Good point

Thing is though, you don't really milk a cow during a 'survival situation'

As TeeDee said, the conversation is kind of complex, but then so is the scenario.
Survival depends on utilising what you have to best advantage, and that might well be the nuts on the tree at hand, rather than making a net/line/snare and finding a suitable area with prey species, iimmc ?

As to which is better for you, animal or nut ? it doesn't matter so long as you have sufficient.
The body takes what it can from both. Humanity is at it's core omnivorous.....perhaps though there's a huge bit missing from the discussion. Humanity is omnivorous because humanity can process a heck of a lot of organic matter and make it digestible simply by cooking it.

Raw nuts we can eat as is, and we do fairly well digesting them so long as they're well chewed. We don't digest raw meat all that well though, and we have to be careful about pathogens too.

It’s interesting because pine nuts are a staple off some northern American tribal
Cultures

 

[TLM]

It’s interesting because pine nuts are a staple off some northern American tribal
Cultures

And where ever the size of the seed is large enough. Like in Siberia for Pinus cembra sibirica

 

[1 pot hunter]

On short term survival I guess the origin of the oil does not matter if it is within the range a human can handle. There are some fatty acid esters in some deep sea fish that cannot be broken down and eating them causes kind of interesting effects (had to try out a small portion, fortunately only a small one), they taste delicious ...

Explosive diararea

And where ever the size of the seed is large enough. Like in Siberia for Pinus cembra sibirica

yes I seen it on a ray mears programme and a few others carnt remember the name. Most pines the seeds are to small

 

[TeeDee]

Better testosterone levels would give u sharper thought processes n more energy n vitality to perform difficult tasks in a bad situation like a survival scenario

Interestingly increased Testosterone DOES improve mental clarity and acuity IF one is already impaired in the first place.

The other stimulus that can increase testosterone production - at least in the short term, its the bodies way of getting you out of the s##t - is fasting ie not getting calories in the first place which can increase a GH and Testosterone spike - how long one can rely on this spike I don't know , I'd imagine its the bodies very clever way of 'robbing peter to pay paul' when the chips are down and you need the body to perform.

If one suffers with low testosterone levels the following mental / emotional symptoms are common:-

• irritability.
• anxiety.
• sadness.
• low sex drive.
• memory problems.
• trouble concentrating.
• sleep problems.

But as mentioned they tend to be far longer term and would be in situa before a survival situation was the salient concern.

The above is why so many men with Low T often get wrongly misdiagnosed with sever depression and placed on happy pills.
Huge travesty.

 

[Broch]

Raw nuts we can eat as is, and we do fairly well digesting them so long as they're well chewed. We don't digest raw meat all that well though, and we have to be careful about pathogens too.

Some people can; I have an allergic reaction to raw nuts . One wonders how that gene has survived if we ate a lot of raw nuts in the past

 

[nigelp]

Better testosterone levels would give u sharper thought processes n more energy n vitality to perform difficult tasks in a bad situation like a survival scenario

Interesting hypotheses - poses some questions….
How much animal fat would you need to maintain testosterone levels versus how much plant oil/fat?
How long would it take for testosterone levels drop sufficiently to impede energy and concentration etc as opposed to impairment due to a lack of energy/dehydration?
Do testosterone levels actually drop in the short term anyway?
Can you ‘force’ the body to prioritise what the fat is used for i.e when you eat the fat - would it use the fat for other more important (as it sees it) functions such as immediate energy use?
Can I still take my jar of peanut butter?

 

[TeeDee]

If the OP is interested there are some useful bits and pieces in here from the excellent Mr Huberman. Gives a good over view of hormone interaction - but this really is the fine detail.

1 hour 30 mins in.

If one was in a survival situation I think the effects of NEAT and TDEE would be far larger considerations and that would mean Calories would be the be all and end all decider.

Just review some of the seasons of Alone and see how low Calorie intake vs calorie expenditure affects every facet of waking hours.