Why is living in the midst of nature forbidden?

[Woody girl]

I do hope that this youngster has learned one important lesson.
That is, that all his arrogant roaring and foot stomping, got him precisely nowhere. And that more humility and willingness to listen to answers to his question might have brought him the knowledge he seeks.
I have studied with native American elders, and respect for answers given was utmost, even if they dont seem relevant at the time, as other things were told, they would all fit into place eventually and become coherent whole, though often one needed to go away and think about what was said, and by working it out for yourself the lesson became more ingrained, as against just being told the answers straight off.

 

[John Fenna]

My heart sank when I started reading this thread - now I am loving it!

 

[C_Claycomb]

The thing that is bothering me is this: If I had not written anything, so that it was Broch's post that was read first, would the whole thing have unfolded smoothly? Or would the blow up have simply moved on to the next person who raised concerns and questioned experience?

I have re-read my post and on a scale of 1-10 on helpful it may have been only a 3 or 4, but on a scale of discouraging and belittling I think it is a 2 or less, yet from the response you'd think it was pushing at least 8. .

 

[Broch]

Every time I hear someone being played out to "My Way", I always think that maybe they would have done it better with a bit of preliminary research thus avoiding having to re-invent the wheel.

A clever man learns by experience: a wise man learns also from the experience of others.

Apologies if that's how my post came over; it wasn't meant to. I was merely trying to say that it would be a shame if young people didn't have belief in themselves; it would be a dull life.

 

[Broch]

The thing that is bothering me is this: If I had not written anything, so that it was Broch's post that was read first, would the whole thing have unfolded smoothly? Or would the blow up have simply moved on to the next person who raised concerns and questioned experience?

I have re-read my post and on a scale of 1-10 on helpful it may have been only a 3 or 4, but on a scale of discouraging and belittling I think it is a 2 or less, yet from the response you'd think it was pushing at least 8. .

I think, re-reading it all, we could all have asked questions first to really find out where he was coming from. There was a bit lost in translation (though his English is excellent) and he just asked the wrong question or, at least, he asked it in the wrong way. If he'd asked "is there anywhere I can go to legally live off-grid in a primitive way?" he would (I hope) have got a different response.

 

[Woody girl]

The thing that is bothering me is this: If I had not written anything, so that it was Broch's post that was read first, would the whole thing have unfolded smoothly? Or would the blow up have simply moved on to the next person who raised concerns and questioned experience?

I have re-read my post and on a scale of 1-10 on helpful it may have been only a 3 or 4, but on a scale of discouraging and belittling I think it is a 2 or less, yet from the response you'd think it was pushing at least 8. .

I wouldn't worry. I have a feeling it would have gone that way anyway.
He wanted an answer to a question that could not realy be answered in a precise way, because rules are different all over the world, and he didn't want to be questioned or told anything else. A young, bored, worried, and frustrated keyboard warrior!

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Despite the OP's inability to communicate in a civil manner, he did raise an interesting point. It's difficult to name anywhere on the earth where someone could go & live off-grid without a folder full of documentation authorizing you to do so. Coming to terms with modern constraints may be more difficult for some than for others, though from his first few posts I got the impression he had been watching too many survival realityTV shows & was impatient to emulate what the actors did, like when we were kids & after watching a western we wanted to play cowboys & indians........we didn't have any experience either..
At least he spiced things up a bit.

 

[Tengu]

I think you all did a good job, myself .

one thing I have learned when seeking information, is to see if you can offer some in return. A great thing about the Internet; you have now got ready access to experts in the field, leaders even. They are almost always ready to help you -this is how they get to be experts.

But they arent there to do your homework for you.

 

[Woody girl]

Something I just noticed. At the end of post 12, the op ends with a reference to a conspiracy theory site.
This is probably what is fuelling his fears, want to run away and live away from everything on his own.
I could sense something wasnt right with him somewhere. I sensed a big fear in his world. Seems this could be his trigger.
I wouldn't recommend searching for it. I've only quickly flipped through it, but it's pretty full on. Total rubbish!
I think he sees everything and everyone as a problem and possible threat.
Dont feel too bad, just get making tin hats to protect yourselves from the world elitist draining our rights and freedoms!

 

[C_Claycomb]

Hmmm. I didn't follow the link he posted. I assumed it was his dig at us, a site he thought we would like.

Lean'n'mean,
Some years back I played tourist in Namibia, we visited two Bushman Living History sites in the north west of the country. Namibia has one of the lowest population densities in the world, similar to Australia but about 1/10 the actual population. Anyway, at the first village (-19.238689, 19.243518, an hour from the nearest paved road) we were told by the Bushmen that they were not permitted to go into the bush and hunt, even using their traditional methods because also in the village were blacks (the Bushmen’s description) who would hunt with dogs and possibly guns. The regulations had to apply to everyone there. Another village, a further two hours east (-19.391535, 20.586945) was all Bushmen, and they were permitted to hunt using traditional methods.

At times I have watched the program put out with Steve Rinella called Meat Eater, as well as a Netflix program "Stars in the Sky: A Hunting Story", and they show people who feed their families on wild game. They are not living primitive lives, and are not reliant on the wild for everything. It does show though that there are places that one can live quite a basic life, and where the necessary permits to harvest wild game are not overburdensome. Not the same though as going full primitive.

 

[Woody girl]

There is something for us to learn through this though.

Some youngsters in lockdown are spending an awful lot of time online and trying to get answers to their questions. Why cant I go see my friends, why do I have to wear a mask etc. This is seen in their eyes as unfair restrictions especially if they have no friends or family badly affected. These conspiracy theory sites are then ripe and ready to warp the minds and thinking of angry worried kids. They then go looking for answers to the perceived threat, and down the rabbit hole they go.
Happens to older people too.
You may trust your kids, but its still wise to talk and keep an eye on what they are looking at online.
We've had a great lesson about this in America recently, it seems funny at first and allowed to grow with no checks or balances, and suddenly ......you got a problem.
Just saying.

 

[Erbswurst]

I always wonder why we have in this Forum no youngsters, as far as I see.
Of course those who develop an interest in bushcraft usually can find an easy access to a local boy scout group, and that's surely the best recommendation that they can get in this age.

But in German Forums we hadn't only beginners in the student age, but teenagers too. And by the way they usually asked their questions very kind and polite, with different results of course.

One next to Cologne, that I offered to come along with a friend, mum or dad in order to pick up a complete used equipment for free got fear of the own courage and didn't do that, even if it was just half an hour on the local train, for example.

But there was also another one, just 15 years old, that organised pretty soon a local bushcraft meeting on the own ground of his father, started to construct a cottage without electric machines which became very good as I could see when I visited him later and slept in it, and was overall so interested, that I took the effort to search my old contacts until I could send him to a Wandervogel (boy scout) group half an hour away by train, that still lives the stile and traditions of the twenties of the last century, in order to put him where we he obviously belonged to.

 

[Broch]

Kids here do not use online forums - if you want to reach them you really need to use Facebook etc. We have a few sub-25s on here occasionally but, to be honest, I think they are too busy getting on with their lives to chat to old f**ts on a forum

 

[Herman30]

I always wonder why we have in this Forum no youngsters, as far as I see.

Youths today don´t do forums anymore. Facebook and instagram is their thing (I think).

 

[dean4442]

I do feel for that young man, he's going to be disappointed so many times with his "You're just telling me I'll fail" attitude that he's not listening to why he may fail and so won't think of a way to avoid the problems and maybe succeed. I've trained young recruits and learning has generally been a two way street, sometimes though they had to make their own mistakes for the lesson to really hit home the problem comes when the mistake is fatal it's pretty hard for the individual making the mistake to learn but everyone else certainly does. Maybe getting older does give you something very important to help learning, patience.

 

[TLM]

It does take some to to realize that Youtube etc. videos and reality are different.

 

[Toddy]

I don't do Facebook, but there is a BcUK Facebook. Ed and Dean (both very capable people ) keep an eye on it

 

[oldtimer]

Doesn't one of our members have the tagline "I'm not young enough to know everything"?.. seems a wise remark to me.

 

[Laurentius]

Despite the OP's inability to communicate in a civil manner, he did raise an interesting point. It's difficult to name anywhere on the earth where someone could go & live off-grid without a folder full of documentation authorizing you to do so. Coming to terms with modern constraints may be more difficult for some than for others, though from his first few posts I got the impression he had been watching too many survival realityTV shows & was impatient to emulate what the actors did, like when we were kids & after watching a western we wanted to play cowboys & indians........we didn't have any experience either..
At least he spiced things up a bit.

Remaining at the hypothetical here, if you truly did have all the knowlege and resources to live off grid, would it matter that you had permission or not as you would surely know your wilderness sufficiently well to avoid contact with any authorities. There is one place on Earth where the natives are left free to live in a "primitive" lifestyle and that is the Andaman Islanders, which of course is strictly off limits to outsiders.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Hiding from people, all the time, isn't much of a life. The Japanese soldier, Hiroo Onoda, lasted 29 years in the Philippines. Some wilderness in some countries is easier to hide away in than others. Being found, and it being known that you are out there are also different things. People hunting an area may sit and survey a wide area with powerful optics for hours. If you set traps, cut wood, build permanent quality shelters, all leave signs and there are always other people who know the environment.
BBC film crews put HD video cameras in the darndest remote places