Why an axe and a fixed blade knife?

[FGYT]

I thought that because that's the general trend. I don't believe in it myself and I actually commonly use a machete where I hunt (all legal) and know of some survival legends who never touched axes in the UK and kept a British army machete down their Wellington boot on tracking courses! There is absolutely no good reason why machetes, golocks and the like aren't more commonplace in UK woodcraft (apart from scaring the bejesus out of town folk). It's solely a case of whatever you learned and trained with, is probably a better tool for you.

Mostly the Machette/ Parang Kukri/ Golok s that have been available over the last 20yrs are poor quality mass produced down to a price and/or Tourist Tat so Few have had the time with a good quality item and many have found the rubbish woefully inadequate

Axe is a traditional Uk and European tool and relatively cheap good quality examples are available and familiar over the decades to most (I did knife and Axe at Scouts in the 80's etc and its been in since day one )

even the British Army Golok isnt made in Uk (since 2003) any more Martindale ship the steel out to Thailand to keep competitive Not that the UK made ones where any good even with a long time re profiling and sanding the scales etc.
and the army guys dont use them any way because they are no good in the jungle ( I know because I make the Parangs that they Do use )

 

[outpost31]

I use an axe rather than the 3 kukri I own, not so much out of preference (although the axe is the tool i have most experience with) but because of perception. By that i mean how it is perceived by other people, show someone an axe and they usually don't bat an eyelid pull out a kukri and they think you're some kind of maniac. Wrong I know but thats just my experience.

 

[santaman2000]

Mostly the Machette/ Parang Kukri/ Golok s that have been available over the last 20yrs are poor quality mass produced down to a price and/or Tourist Tat so Few have had the time with a good quality item and many have found the rubbish woefully inadequate ......

Realistically, the most common (and most useful) machetes have always been cheaply made. That's one of their main strengths; they're the Moras of the jungle knife class. Just a bit of flat steel with scales riveted on.

 

[FGYT]

Very nice looking blades; where are they from?

when made (the pic is MDF profiles as prototyping ) they will be from Dorset

 

[dwardo]

I have taken just my bill-hook and knife in the past and missed the axe.
I missed using it as a hammer for pegs. Missed the "bash" ability when cutting dead wood down to length, rather than cutting all the way through with a saw I could often just break through after a cut or two. Much more efficient than a shorter lighter sharper bladed tool.

So far as the "bushcraft knife" goes it more often than not just for a little whittling and food prep. Could be done with far inferior knives granted but not as enjoyable.

 

[Laurentius]

I have taken just my bill-hook and knife in the past and missed the axe.
I missed using it as a hammer for pegs. Missed the "bash" ability when cutting dead wood down to length, rather than cutting all the way through with a saw I could often just break through after a cut or two. Much more efficient than a shorter lighter sharper bladed tool.

So far as the "bushcraft knife" goes it more often than not just for a little whittling and food prep. Could be done with far inferior knives granted but not as enjoyable.

I must confess I use my little hatchet more often as a hammer than anything else, and from the looks of the way the steel has flattened out on that edge, I would guess throughout most of it's lifetime it has been used that way as well. It's a nice little tool, weighs slightly less than a pound and a half, three inch blade, 12 inch handle and does not give my arthritic wrist half as much gyp as anything bigger and heavier would.

 

[Tagaeri]

when made (the pic is MDF profiles as prototyping ) they will be from Dorset

Ah, yes - just looked at the photo properly

 

[Tagaeri]

There's a big difference between the cheaply made flimsy machetes favoured across South America, which are mostly for vegetation, and the kukris made my Cold Steel, Gerber, et al., which are real workhorses.

I use a maul (or a sledge hammer and log grenade!) for splitting wood on our smallholding and a small axe for smaller pieces or kindling, so I'm very familiar/capable with an axe. In fact, I never use a kukri at home (though I do use a billhook for coppicing). But if I only wanted to carry one tool into the woods, it would be a kukri. I'm not knocking axes as a tool for bushcraft, I'm just interested to know why they're so popular compared to other tools.

 

[Hibrion]

I wouldn't say that's the go to kit these days. A Mora and a Bacho Laplander seem to be far more common.

I use - among other things - a fixed blade and a hatchet because they work well for my environment. Simple really. I've used kukris, but I can carry a hatchet and a small fixed blade for less weight and do more with them. I can see the appeal, and have used one around my home in the past, but as said, there is a stigma associated with a blade like that, which can make it more difficult to carry and use in certain places.
That being said, I've never had the chance to use anything like those from FGYT.

 

[Haggis]

Here is a link to a fairly good article on the subject of axes and fixed blade knives,,,

http://masterwoodsman.com/2014/horac...chets-handles/

 

[severebrainfailure]

Isn't a european/UK thing? even these days you can pick up a passible hatchet in a diy shop, everyone's dad/uncle/grandad has a rusty old axe in the shed, and many of us grew up on those in the scouts etc, but a kukri is a very specialist item here, far too expensive for most to learn on, whereas a £10 draper hatchet is not. Once you are used to a tool...

 

[santaman2000]

There's a big difference between the cheaply made flimsy machetes favoured across South America, which are mostly for vegetation, and the kukris made my Cold Steel, Gerber, et al., which are real workhorses......

I beg to differ (partially at least) I've seen the Cold Steel Khukuri. It's a poor imitation of a REAL Khukuri; far too thin, too light, and nowhere near the quality of a true Nepalese made khukuri (particularly a Panawal) And there are no better machetes than Tramontina.

The part I do NOT disagree on is your statement that the machetes favored in South America are mostly for vegetation; that's the whole point of a machete. That and food prep.

 

[British Red]

The laws of physics explain the superiority of both long bladed cutting tools and axes. An axe has its weight forward on a radial arm - it therefore will always generate more cutting force at the point of impact - its all about torque. However rather like terminal energy in ballistics, it is transfer of energy that matters. So an axe works well against solid vegetation that does not flex or move away from the point of impact. It is more efficient in this type of cutting than a jungle knife / Khukri. However in cross fibre cutting where the target can flex or move, a "draw cut" is optimal - this involves a combination of impact and slicing actions - so a longer, more "knife like" blade is optimal.

Short answer - axes cut heavy braced stuff better, knives cut whippy flexible stuff better. This is simply the laws of physics. Various designs move between the extremes of long thin blades and short heavy blades on a long handle that typify the two genres.

In considering your "toolkit" its best to consider what tasks you are going to perform. Neither tool is superior to the other, they are just optimised for different activities - arguing about the "best tool" is like arguing that hammer is better than a screwdriver.

 

[Tagaeri]

The laws of physics explain the superiority of both long bladed cutting tools and axes. An axe has its weight forward on a radial arm - it therefore will always generate more cutting force at the point of impact - its all about torque. However rather like terminal energy in ballistics, it is transfer of energy that matters. So an axe works well against solid vegetation that does not flex or move away from the point of impact. It is more efficient in this type of cutting than a jungle knife / Khukri. However in cross fibre cutting where the target can flex or move, a "draw cut" is optimal - this involves a combination of impact and slicing actions - so a longer, more "knife like" blade is optimal.

Short answer - axes cut heavy braced stuff better, knives cut whippy flexible stuff better. This is simply the laws of physics. Various designs move between the extremes of long thin blades and short heavy blades on a long handle that typify the two genres.

In considering your "toolkit" its best to consider what tasks you are going to perform. Neither tool is superior to the other, they are just optimised for different activities - arguing about the "best tool" is like arguing that hammer is better than a screwdriver.

Agreed, and I'm not interesting in arguing about the 'best tool', I'm just interested in other's experiences...

 

[Tagaeri]

I beg to differ (partially at least) I've seen the Cold Steel Khukuri. It's a poor imitation of a REAL Khukuri; far too thin, too light, and nowhere near the quality of a true Nepalese made khukuri (particularly a Panawal) And there are no better machetes than Tramontina.

The part I do NOT disagree on is your statement that the machetes favored in South America are mostly for vegetation; that's the whole point of a machete. That and food prep.

It may not be as good as a 'real' kukri, but the Cold Steel LTC kukri is a fantastic tool (you may have seen the much cheaper standard CS kukri machete?)

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

I know it's each to their own, but I'm a little surprised by this, as a kukri (or similar) seems to be able to do everything an axe can, plus more (e.g. clearing brush, digging, preparing game), and for anything else there's the folding knife.

Well you did ask!!!!

 

[santaman2000]

It may not be as good as a 'real' kukri, but the Cold Steel LTC kukri is a fantastic tool (you may have seen the much cheaper standard CS kukri machete?)

T

That's entirely possible.

 

[santaman2000]

The laws of physics explain the superiority of both long bladed cutting tools and axes. An axe has its weight forward on a radial arm - it therefore will always generate more cutting force at the point of impact - its all about torque. However rather like terminal energy in ballistics, it is transfer of energy that matters. So an axe works well against solid vegetation that does not flex or move away from the point of impact. It is more efficient in this type of cutting than a jungle knife / Khukri. However in cross fibre cutting where the target can flex or move, a "draw cut" is optimal - this involves a combination of impact and slicing actions - so a longer, more "knife like" blade is optimal.

Short answer - axes cut heavy braced stuff better, knives cut whippy flexible stuff better. This is simply the laws of physics. Various designs move between the extremes of long thin blades and short heavy blades on a long handle that typify the two genres.

In considering your "toolkit" its best to consider what tasks you are going to perform. Neither tool is superior to the other, they are just optimised for different activities - arguing about the "best tool" is like arguing that hammer is better than a screwdriver.

Agreed. At least for now; hopefully one day we'll have a small pocket sized cutting laser.

 

[British Red]

Agreed, and I'm not interesting in arguing about the 'best tool', I'm just interested in other's experiences...

And what I wrote is my experience.

You wrote that

a kukri (or similar) seems to be able to do everything an axe can, plus more (e.g. clearing brush, digging, preparing game)

My point is that whilst you can do everything with a kukri that an axe can do (in the same way that you can knock in nails with a screwdriver if you want to), a kukri is vastly less efficient at the tasks I outlined. Thus the selection of tools should be dictated by the task in hand. I would take a large knife if I planned on shelter building but an axe and saw to process large wood. If bivvying and using a stove I would take neither.

 

[Tagaeri]

With a kukri I have a machete, an axe, a draw knife and a knife (and a spade too in a pinch) in one tool. Jack of all trades (master of none admittedly!).

I no longer have the Cold Steel LTC kukri I had on long-term loan; lovely knife but very expensive. So I just ordered the Condor kukri machete from Greenman Bushcraft, http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/cutting-tools/condor-kukri-machete.htm, as it seemed the best of the cheaper options and came with a nice leather sheath. I'll let you know how I get on...