Who's feeling the pinch?

[Silverhill]

My firm hit the recession in late 2007 around mid-winter and subsequently shed staff and the remainder took anywhere between 7% and 25% pay cuts depending upon 'worth' to the firm. To be honest, it made little to no difference to our life in terms of eating, drinking, and expenditure on account of the fact that both myself and Mrs.SF lead pretty frugal lives anyways. The only aspects that have affected us are fuel prices (both heating and transport) as well as noticing more folks moving towards hobbies and interests that we've always enjoyed such as camping/fishing etc, which I guess is a sign of the effect of the recession and subsequent austerity measures on other people. I strongly believed that this recession would turn into a 'double-dip' scenario, so I took a decision to stop saving money and plough it into junior miners instead, a move which has paid off thus far.

Generally speaking, it appears that the downturn has shafted quite a few generations but I genuinely feel for those just coming onto the job market, for whatever reason, with little hope of following their vocation or training into employment let alone purchasing a decent house. Maybe that's why so many folks turn to the outdoors in such circumstances?

 

[Retired Member southey]

No sorry I mean things like crafts and general skills, Like you I will pass everything I learn on to my kids, it the only reason I want to learn as much as I can, but some times there are things that would I think require the finesse of a bit of expert guidance but the cost of some courses even just a day is so prohibitive, I know its there living but still, Then again it is just my view from the aspect of wanting to learn rather than from wanting to earn from teaching, I have been lucky to find a few chaps happy to swap guidance for work from me either helping out behind the scenes or even just cleaning there workshop up over a weekend or after a course,

There is hopefully 17 or so years before my two could go to Uni, I just hope the Scottish system isn't to expensive by then

 

[Nonsuch]

I'm not feeling the pinch right now but if we have a total capital markets melt down, all the banks go bust and everyone's money goes up in smoke then I will be……with a bit of luck there will be time to buy gold beforehand.

 

[Teepee]

As a self-employed tradesman (Decorator& Joiner) I've noticed things pinching much harder this year and thats saying something after the last few years in my industry.

My rates have stayed the same over the last 3 years, but expenses have almost doubled. Lots of my materials are at least 40% more and some have tripled.

A worrying sign is people saying that they are very happy with the work that I have done, thanking me for my efforts and then refusing to pay-Its happened 3 times this year! I've never had this before.

I'm doing OK personally as I've never been busier and my work is set for the next 14 months with booked work, but getting new customers from advertising is proving incredibly difficult compared to the last ten- this year is definitely the worst ever for new enquiries.

 

[Paul_B]

I disagree with the de-skilling aspect we are more re-skilling. People aren't dumbing down just because someone who doesn't need to know how to change a plug doesn't know it. This just mean that he has other skills and can buy in the skills through employing others to do what they can't. I can't plumb my house so have I dumbed down? If a plumber can do what I do I'd be surprised too. This has always been the case that people learn what they need to learn and employ others for what they don't need to learn.

As far as the pinch goes I am not too bad. For some time now I have been in a job that doesn't pay that much (underpaid for what I do that is for sure). I have always had to watch my money for the last 6 years or slightly more. Before that I'd have about 4 long weekends or week long holidays in the UK each year. I even had a week in the Nice area. I didn't have to worry about petrol to get there and about what I spent when I was there. I went up to Scotland, drank out, ate out and slept in a B&B. Now I wild camp and struggle to pay the diesel (switched to a diesel to try and save on transport). I have never been extravagant but I still go out with friends and drive to wherever I need to go to get out in the hills with friends and on my own. I don't drink that much these days but I will buy a nice bottle of wine if I feel like one. Even a nice malt around Xmas time.

As far as really feeling the pinch goes I have always had certain months that I struggle with. It usually comes into effect when I have extra bills that month. I get car tax 6 monthly so January and July I have an extra bill (January is not too bad as it is close to the month off council tax or is it water can't remember (that is bad)). I also have a few other months which are tight but I know they will so easier months I save. I budget I buy what I need not what I want. However my hobby is getting outdoors so I will buy gear to keep me doing that it's just bought economically and cost efficiently. It is really my only main expense that is not purely for living. I don't spend much when I go out. A night out for me is usually only £20 and happens infrequently. Not being tight just don't see the point of buying a hangover for the morning. I still enjoy myself and have a great bunch of mates who also think the same way.

My work is not well paid but it is quite secure. I am the only one there that can do all of what I can do. This includes covering for quite a few people when they are not there. The company exports 80% of its produce ultimately to countries that are still growing their economies such as south America, China and still the Middle East. We supply into large scale / large capital projects so this current downturn hasn't affected it at all. What they are making now had the money in place maybe 10 years ago!! When you supply Venezuela, Chile, China, Peru, Brazil and India with what they desperately need in order to grow you know you aree onto a winner. We have been busier year on year now for about 4 years and this year will probably double last!! This means I am better not changing jobs despite having occasional hard months. A secure, not too good paid job in hand is better than a well paid job that is not secure.

BTW Sorry if the above sounds like gloating I don't mean that just trying to say to people that there are still success stories out there and in manufacturing too!! Things are not as gloomy as is often painted in the media but it is belt tightening time for sure just not time to panic yet. We are still really well off compared to a lot of others. If you have food, shelter and a social security system as a last resort then you are a lot better than others. BTW if politics is in everything then I blame labour.

 

[FGYT]

There is hopefully 17 or so years before my two could go to Uni, I just hope the Scottish system isn't to expensive by then

Uni isnt the big answer that the Gov have people believe the vast majority of Graduates never get a job that their degree level should promise and thats the ones with good passes etc there simply isnt the demand in the work place for the number that come out every year

obviously it keeps young people off the Dole list for longer and people like banging on about how every body has a right to a Uni place etc

My sister is a Dr in Nuclear Physics and i have 2 cousins as Dr Engineering (cambridge) all with the relevant degrees under that etc none have a particularly well payed job one of the cousins i had to explain the difference between Brazing and welding. and my sister is pretty much dependent on money to pay to fix anything


Think it was the Dr in charge of the Dolly the sheep cloning team that quit the research lab after he found the guy who fixed the coke machine earned more than he did

ATB

Duncan

 

[troyka]

Magentus, im in weston-super-mare, in exile from cornwall, and my beloved Lancashire.

 

[dwardo]

I started my own business about 4 yeras ago and i am only just starting to break even and earn a barely liveable wage BUT... atleast I know i am not going to be made redundant tomorrow unlike my missus which was yesterday... but the past 4 years have taught us we dont need as much money as we thought.
We now grow our own food in the garden and i dont know if it saves us that much but its nice to do and its a "free" hobby. We do run a car but its a car we OWN and is paid for, yeah its 12 years old but it works and it is serviceable. The only thing i crave now is time and skills which cannot be bought but they are mostly free!
My hobbies are woodwork which is simple tools and "ahem" free materials and we have a baby boy to keep us all entertained
Yup we are pretty broke but as long as the nasty bill keep getting paid we will make do with whats left.

The thing i dont get is this constant "Market growth" thing, where is it growing too, with what rescources and from where and also why does it need to GROW al the time and not jus tsustain its self? its all bonkers..

 

[Magentus]

The thing i dont get is this constant "Market growth" thing, where is it growing too, with what rescources and from where and also why does it need to GROW al the time and not jus tsustain its self? its all bonkers..

You have the nail on the head! It can't keep growing and growing forever can it?

 

[TeeDee]

Uni isnt the big answer that the Gov have people believe the vast majority of Graduates never get a job that their degree level should promise and thats the ones with good passes etc there simply isnt the demand in the work place for the number that come out every year

obviously it keeps young people off the Dole list for longer and people like banging on about how every body has a right to a Uni place etc

My sister is a Dr in Nuclear Physics and i have 2 cousins as Dr Engineering (cambridge) all with the relevant degrees under that etc none have a particularly well payed job one of the cousins i had to explain the difference between Brazing and welding. and my sister is pretty much dependent on money to pay to fix anything


Think it was the Dr in charge of the Dolly the sheep cloning team that quit the research lab after he found the guy who fixed the coke machine earned more than he did

ATB

Duncan

Do we see an Issue of Peak Education?? Too many people , training and studying too long for too few jobs?? , I wonder what the advantage is to those that fund so many people into such things via student loans?

Oh no , I think I get it now....

 

[Andy BB]

You have the nail on the head! It can't keep growing and growing forever can it?

History tends to indicate it can! (until of course population explosion leads to the inevitable corrective measures (war/famine/pestilence...)

And on that cheerful note I'll bid you all good-night

 

[Bush Matt]

Made redundant from city job after 3 years of progressive downturn at a time when it’s very tough to get work in my field. Moved back to New Forest with parents for a few months – signed on this morning, what a tick box exercise that was!

On the plus side, I have lots of time, trying to gain experience to do ML assessment. Have a work visa for Australia for a year and am in contact with Raleigh about being an adventure project manager in Borneo for 3 months.

For the peak education argument I am absolutely in agreement, too many people getting degrees devalues them. Bachelors degrees are becoming irrelevant – if you want specific jobs you will need a masters or phd. I had a job for an overnight guy advertised last year (not the most fun job). Received 1000 CV’s in a week with the minimum requirement of a degree and some relevant experience!

 

[dwardo]

Made redundant from city job after 3 years of progressive downturn at a time when it’s very tough to get work in my field. Moved back to New Forest with parents for a few months – signed on this morning, what a tick box exercise that was!

My missus went through the same yesterday, never signed on a day in her life and they made her feel awful. When she completed the application she was given a date to go into the job center with more documents to prove we were not hiding millions in our account, the date could not be changed and she had to phone another number to change it. She called the other number and asked for another date where she was told that she "should" be available for work so any date they choose should be suitable, never mind childcare or transport, wouldnt mind but she wasnt even claiming yet???? two minds to go with her, find the chap who was on the phone and drag him out by his cheek and beat him to death, ,,, brings out the best in you all this..

 

[FGYT]

Do we see an Issue of Peak Education?? Too many people , training and studying too long for too few jobs?? , I wonder what the advantage is to those that fund so many people into such things via student loans?

Oh no , I think I get it now....

they are trying to make an upside down triangle with to many chiefs and not enough indians as they used to say and just as stable

actually to many indians but from India being shipped in cos they are cheaper (no immigration either as they are on contract to an Indian company so just a work visa needed)
however they cant do the same amount of work as a proper trained UK equiv (ie in my wifes office they have one project to do at a time each she has 38 and actually if you add the management charge they cost the same as her per head anyway)

there's lots and lots of work being done in UK by non UK residents that we dont seem to want to do (Im not talking about perfectly legal immigrants as far as im concerned they are now UK residents) there are lots of migrant and seasonal workers who come to UK who travel half way across Europe to work to keep a family back home etc as well as the field type workers there are also lots of skilled trades coming

why cos theres work just not at degree level . (mind you the rubbish they put out in schools . I think the local one offers a choice of 39 GCSE level qualifications to choose from that really dosnt help IMO )

ATB

Duncan

 

[Paul_B]

Not long after I graduated I was signing on while looking for work. I got offered an ESF funded training course which allowed you to work towards an NVQ level 4 in Supervisory management. You spent one day a month at a uni and the rest doing work experience in a relevant job. No relevant job for me as I had an obscure degree according to the organiser. Anyway there was a Spanish graduate Mechanical Engineer (a truly fit, blonde lass that all the guys on the course had a crack at, sorry to be crude). She had moved to UK because in Spain they had been in a situation where over 50% of school leavers went to Uni and got a degree. This meant you had a huge excess of graduates and not the jobs for them. It meant that you pushed up the requirements for jobs such that general admin jobs that in this country employed A-level school leavers or even those with just GCSEs were taken by graduates even graduates with good degrees!

She had the equivalent of a first class honours degree from a good university in Mech. Eng. but could not get anything suitable in Spain.

I have spoken to generations of engineers both in my family and through work or education about jobs and education level. The thing I have learnt is that my Dad's generation any degree got you a good job, pretty much straight from university. I know of ordinary degree graduates (not honours 1, 2.1, 2.2 or 3 but below that) and they became fully chartered engineers with well paid jobs. My generation had to get an honours degree and often a 2.1 or 2.2 if you had experience and you got a graduate trainee engineering position to allow you to become chartered. Now the minimum entry to a chartered engineering training programme is MEng and that is before you have found a suitable training position. Most likely even with an MEng you won't get the good training programmes in engineering.

Basically it is a mistake to assume education will get you on in life. Training can quite often get you further and quicker too. What I mean is university education compared to vocational training such as a trade. I know of nurses who got the previously common qualifications that enabled them to once reach higher positions. Now you need a full nursing degree not just the traditional registered nurse qualification to move up the grades. There is now a ceiling where there wasn't.

Add to all that the huge number of further education establishments now able to offer degrees and the range of degrees on offer irrespective of our national needs and you have a bit of a effed up situation with our education/employment link. However for those who can afford it a university degree is a good way to avoid the work environment for 4 years. When I graduated Masters and PhDs were considered mostly as good ways to avoid employement as times were difficult in the graduate market. It takes you out of jobseeking for one or three/four years in the case of PhDs.

BTW I have Beng and MSc(Eng) degrees but none are being used at work so I am probably bitter.

 

[silentpaddler]

You'd never know there was a financial crisis by the economy here, things are truckin along in high gear. Maybe we're just going to be the last to do the inevitable crash.
I own a construction business and the industry seems healthy, lots o work, etc. Mind you when fuel prices jumped a few months ago, I was feeling the pain of filling up a
truck with a 130 liter gas tank.

Want to be depressed? www.kunstler.com

 

[sandbender]

"...corrective measures (war/famine/pestilence...)..."

...and energy.

Hungary is a fairly safe country, not too much crime, certainly not too much violent crime, however the number of crimes against property are on the up, and tellingly is not uncommon that when someone raids your house, it isn't the TV or electronics that are stolen, but the contents of the larder! Hams, sausage, canned goods are all taken, this was especially true last winter.

What I read from this is that people who have never commited crimes before are being driven to dire straits and will now stoop to crime to put food on the table.

 

[Bush Matt]

the date could not be changed

Ah yes – the inflexible dates. So the day your allocated is determined by your national insurance number, mine is Wed 9am (also my birthday this week – great!) and cannot be changed. This is in spite of explaining that I was attempting to build experience to gain the Mountain Leader qualification and was planning Mon to Wed this week on Dartmoor.

The whole thing is a joke, the guy who interviewed me was helpful but there was no consideration of personal circumstances (or common sense). He didn’t even want a copy of my CV as he’d never seen an appropriate job advertised in the area, yet I’ve still got to go back after 2 working days to get my card signed.

 

[Magentus]

Want to be depressed? www.kunstler.com

Or informed..........................and depressed?

Kunstlers 'Long Emergency' is a thorough, informed and depressing read. I'd rather be eyes wide open than head in the sand though.

 

[Andie]

really starting to feel the pinch now as work has nearly ceased I'm a self-employed builder and theres no work out there at all and with 2 young ankle biters and rent to pay were trying to live of my girl-friends £6.25 an hour wage