Wood burners in the news

[slowworm]

BTW can poor, working people even afford to put in woodburners these days?

Again, why this fascination with money and wood burners? Did I miss the study that says wood burners produce more particulates than open fires, bonfires and incinerators?

When we bought our first house it was in the suburbs. Typical run down house with no central heating and deathtrap gas fires. We ripped them out and got by with open fires for a year or two whilst we renovated the house. In hindsight it wouldn't have cost much to install a 2nd hand wood burner and that would have saved money in the long run.

I also genuinely didn't notice any smell from our fires either, plenty of smoke from bonfires in the area and real coal smoke on occasion but as I was burning smokeless coal and seasoned wood we didn't produce much noticeable smoke even with an open fire.

 

[Toddy]

While we're sort of on the topic.

BBQ's.
The stench of poorly combusted barely processed hydrocarbons every Summer.

F1 racing......most of us try to be economical with fuel, the waste is horrendous.

The list goes on......

If there were easy answers we'd have applied them, but I really appreciate clean air these days, when the neighbours aren't out BBQ'ing or burning decking offcuts

 

[TLM]

If there were easy answers we'd have applied them

That might be true in this case but generally not by far.

Following this discussion is slightly difficult from my point of view, seems like even our traditional way of heating with wood is very different, not to consider the more modern.

 

[SaraR]

Seems most people that I see writing or making videos about having a wood burner for heating point out that unless you have your own woodland or can get wood for free from friends, neighbours, kind tree-surgeons etc it would be too expensive. Not sure how that would work if a larger proportion of the population wanted in on it…

In Sweden, loads of people went over to using wood pellet burners for their central heating, but that also requires space to install a hopper and feeder.

 

[Broch]

 

[Stew]

View attachment 78553

Is there data for bbqs?

 

[Mesquite]

Is there data for bbqs?

Article here and here with some data for bbq's

 

[Broch]

One of the problems I see is that even in the Government report released earlier in the week the data is all defined as 'estimated'.

I suspect that the majority of the log burners installed in urban households are not used most of the time - probably only a couple of evenings a week at most; it's too much faff for most people. So, if the data is extrapolated from historic data but increased by the number of log burners bought it will be grossly exaggerated. The people that had log burners before use them; the new owners don't (I suspect). I know one family that installed one but have decided not to use it because it creates too much dust when they open it to empty it!

 

[Paul_B]

Perhaps. Is their short term pollution worse than the long term environmental climate change caused by flights for holidays? Or driving cars? Or gas fired central heating come to that?

Surely if we are going to ban things for health and environmental reasons we should ban all holiday flights (the upper atmosphere emissions do horrendous damage), limit peoples use of electric & gas fired heating and certainly put a stop to silly out of season food stuffs.

Picking on one thing whilst ignoring others seems more like a personal grudge than even handed legislation

It isn't an either or situation here. As someone who developed late onset asthma I believe and the GP suspects through cycling to work through traffic and areas where you can see black smoke pumping out of house chimneys I think it is an issue. Without the pollution of traffic and household smoke I might never have needed two types of inhalers. And I have to say anecdotally in my old area the use of them rose dramatically over the last 10 years when I did my cycle commute. Now I use the train and from the train go through an area which is not as affluent, sink estate, so there are very few woodburners being used on the section from the station to work and back. Once back in my village you see the chimneys fuming again and I often end up using the blue inhaler shortly after getting home. Every one of the houses I pass that do have smoke from the chimneys I know have central heating and they are all of the more affluent end.

No need for it and that is the issue. No need for it in the majority of cases. It is lifestyle choice in most cases without thinking of the impact.

As to flights and all that, I agree. We need less of them. I tend to holiday in the uk or take a ferry and cycle tour in europe. I wish more did something similar or stay at home. However that is not an either or situation. We should be looking at everything we do and trying to make the changes where we can.

 

[Paul_B]

Again, why this fascination with money and wood burners? Did I miss the study that says wood burners produce more particulates than open fires, bonfires and incinerators?

When we bought our first house it was in the suburbs. Typical run down house with no central heating and deathtrap gas fires. We ripped them out and got by with open fires for a year or two whilst we renovated the house. In hindsight it wouldn't have cost much to install a 2nd hand wood burner and that would have saved money in the long run.

I also genuinely didn't notice any smell from our fires either, plenty of smoke from bonfires in the area and real coal smoke on occasion but as I was burning smokeless coal and seasoned wood we didn't produce much noticeable smoke even with an open fire.

That was in response to an earlier comment that brought in lack of money as a reason for using woodburners. Take a look back you will see the post above mine that brought in money matters. Ask him why, from my POV I was only asking and hoping that poster would explain. Perhaps you know why poor people have to use woodburners and how they afford to put the in?

 

[Paul_B]

Things are getting heated. I think that we are never going to get much further than we have so far in this thread. I've seen another thread on this matter go a similar way,

Perhaps there are only a few things we can agree on, if you'll indulge me I think these are as follows:
If you don't need a woodburner and live in an urban or suburban area then perhaps you should not use one.
Dry wood and best practice is essential to use one.
We should all be looking at our overall pollution footprint and try to make improvements where we can

Anything else we can agree on?

 

[Stew]

That was in response to an earlier comment that brought in lack of money as a reason for using woodburners. Take a look back you will see the post above mine that brought in money matters. Ask him why, from my POV I was only asking and hoping that poster would explain. Perhaps you know why poor people have to use woodburners and how they afford to put the in?

I suspect you’re assuming that poor people would use an official hetas registered installer.

 

[Stew]

Things are getting heated. I think that we are never going to get much further than we have so far in this thread. I've seen another thread on this matter go a similar way,

Perhaps there are only a few things we can agree on, if you'll indulge me I think these are as follows:
If you don't need a woodburner and live in an urban or suburban area then perhaps you should not use one.
Dry wood and best practice is essential to use one.
We should all be looking at our overall pollution footprint and try to make improvements where we can

Anything else we can agree on?

Define need?

I have gas central heating but it’s cheaper to run the wood burner.

I need to spend less money.

 

[Stew]

It isn't an either or situation here. As someone who developed late onset asthma I believe and the GP suspects through cycling to work through traffic and areas where you can see black smoke pumping out of house chimneys I think it is an issue. Without the pollution of traffic and household smoke I might never have needed two types of inhalers. And I have to say anecdotally in my old area the use of them rose dramatically over the last 10 years when I did my cycle commute. Now I use the train and from the train go through an area which is not as affluent, sink estate, so there are very few woodburners being used on the section from the station to work and back. Once back in my village you see the chimneys fuming again and I often end up using the blue inhaler shortly after getting home. Every one of the houses I pass that do have smoke from the chimneys I know have central heating and they are all of the more affluent end.

No need for it and that is the issue. No need for it in the majority of cases. It is lifestyle choice in most cases without thinking of the impact.

As to flights and all that, I agree. We need less of them. I tend to holiday in the uk or take a ferry and cycle tour in europe. I wish more did something similar or stay at home. However that is not an either or situation. We should be looking at everything we do and trying to make the changes where we can.

You should read the oxygen advantage. He’s cleared peoples asthma.

 

[Broch]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with people having a log burner that they use to create a nice ambience when they have people to dinner a few times a year - if they want to spend that much money for something they don't need or use

 

[TLM]

have central heating and they are all of the more affluent end.

Scratching my head again, at my cottage I have central heating taking heat from water heated by wood. So is central heating by wood totally unknown concept?

 

[British Red]

Perhaps there are only a few things we can agree on, if you'll indulge me I think these are as follows:
If you don't need a woodburner and live in an urban or suburban area then perhaps you should not use one.

So long as you don't use heat derived from burning fossil fuels (gas or electric) either, then we can agree on that - otherwise you are trading long term environmental damage for short term particulates

 

[William_Montgomery]

If you don't need a woodburner and live in an urban or suburban area then perhaps you should not use one.
Dry wood and best practice is essential to use one.
We should all be looking at our overall pollution footprint and try to make improvements where we can

Who gets to decide whether or not you need a woodburner? What about a mobile phone, or a laptop. Perhaps the children who are forced to slave away under appalling conditions to produce them might think you don't need them either.
I've got a phone and a laptop, I could barely justify needing one of them, let alone both.
My point is, you educate people and let them make their own minds up. But it becomes murky when you start talking about restricting people based upon what someone else decides your needs are.

 

[Minotaur]

My lifelong fantasy is a MKll Phantom in Masons Black, glass division and a fat trunk on the boot.
I will take inspiration from Lord Berens and install a small wood burning stove next to the liquor cabinet.
I did my part with Sea Shepherd and Earth First! Have been without a car for ten years. I will burn Irish peat and to hell with criticism

I think Irish Peat has to be dug for environmental reasons so burning is one of the options.

It isn't an either or situation here. As someone who developed late onset asthma I believe and the GP suspects through cycling to work through traffic and areas where you can see black smoke pumping out of house chimneys I think it is an issue. Without the pollution of traffic and household smoke I might never have needed two types of inhalers. And I have to say anecdotally in my old area the use of them rose dramatically over the last 10 years when I did my cycle commute. Now I use the train and from the train go through an area which is not as affluent, sink estate, so there are very few woodburners being used on the section from the station to work and back. Once back in my village you see the chimneys fuming again and I often end up using the blue inhaler shortly after getting home. Every one of the houses I pass that do have smoke from the chimneys I know have central heating and they are all of the more affluent end.

This happened to my brother and his son when they moved to a new house by a main road. Cycling is the best way to travel from a breathing point of view. The worst is travelling in a car without hitting the air inside the car button.

 

[FerlasDave]

I suspect you’re assuming that poor people would use an official hetas registered installer.

I’ve seen some atrocious jobs done by the above mentioned installers. Also installation doesn’t actually need to be done by them at all, it just needs to meet building regulations and manufacturers recommendations.