when does an informal group become a proper club?

[ozzy1977]

I am looking for people's opinion on when does an informal meeting of a group become a proper club.

At the moment our group meets once a month, our fees are collected and handed over to the land owner, no problem with this.

Recently we have had a fair bit of kit donated to the group for our use, which is extremely kind and greatly appreciated, at this month's meet the question of the upkeep of the kit was raised, one idea was to increase the pitch fee each attendee pays, this extra is collected by one member and kept in a kitty, which sounds like a good idea. This would generate a few hundred pounds each year.

What would the implications of this be?

We want to keep things as simple as possible with no committees or other such nonsense, what would be the best way forward?

Cheers

Chris

Ch

 

[ADz-1983]

As far as I know there is no need to change or formalize anything? Just keep things as they are or how group is happy with.

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[crosslandkelly]

As far as I know there is no need to change or formalize anything? Just keep things as they are or how group is happy with.

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+ 1 to the above.

 

[Swallow]

IMO, you only need to change to a club if what you are doing is going to change. If you make it a club it will change. So if you don't want anything to change then follow the "ain't broke don't fix it" principal.

If you trust each other with the kitty then just stay with that.

If you don't trust each other with the kitty then making a club won't help with that. It will just introduce rules to quote to each other in the case of an dispute which (again IMO) will introduce an unnecessary barrier to getting cool with each other again.

 

[Stringmaker]

It depends how large the group becomes.

What always spells disaster is when you get schisms or splinter groups within the main organisation. If it gets to the point where there is a lot of communal kit but the same few people look after it/clean it for example.

"Are you the Suffolk Bushcraft Group?"

".... off! We're the Bushcraft Group of Suffolk!"

 

[ozzy1977]

I cant see size being an issue, we have a limit of 15 attending due partly to the size of our site.

 

[Toddy]

Keep it simple.
Don't keep monies at all. If money's needed for something, have a whip round, or pay the landowner in advance if you have cash to hand.

It's not so much about trust as it is about the realities of life. Not everyone is available all of the time, not everyone is contactable all of the time to retrieve kit for a group meet up.

If you have spare cash then multiple redundancies isn't always a bad thing especially for spare tarps and cook kit. It's also worth while checking that folks have FA certificates and that there's always a decent kit on site. If everybody chips in a couple of quid it keeps it well in date.

Personally, if I was part of a group with a little spare cash then I'd organise a course every so often. Hire someone to come and do a workshop for everyone; flintknapping, archery, leatherwork, basketry, cordage, blacksmithing, navigation.....all come to mind

Yeah, keep it simple, if you don't want committees and schisms.

atb,
M

Would the landowner let you store communal kit in an outbuilding ?

 

[Big Stu 12]

Personally, if I was part of a group with a little spare cash then I'd organise a course every so often. Hire someone to come and do a workshop for everyone; flintknapping, archery, leatherwork, basketry, cordage, blacksmithing, navigation.....all come to mind

Yeah, keep it simple, if you don't want committees and schisms.

atb,
M

Would the landowner let you store communal kit in an outbuilding ?

We are working on a few ideas of activity's... but thats away off...

The land lord lets us store things in the woodland under a tarp at the mo... nowt of real value at all.... I will be in contact with him on his return from His Hol's, about storage/toilet ideas... but again all in the process.......

THe main thing I think Chris is trying to get at is the best next step... and still stay NON political ie commitees ect..rather then the worry about who keeps the money as the amount will just be enought to pay for things like petrol/oil for the chainsaw.... Elsan Blue for the Bog... ect ect.

At the mo I collect the campsite fee from the guys and hand that stright to the landowner... so there is NO funds about... the thing is all about just paying for the comsumables......

 

[Toddy]

Sounds like you're the fellow who is known and relied on to handle the money then

Best advice ? Decide on a figure, whether that's £50 or £100 or so, (I think that if it's more than that you'd best get a bank account with a debit card, in your name and one other; accidents do happen, and if you can't get to the money then someone else needs access too), and when things get below that have a whip round to bring it back up to enough to get the fuel, etc., without anyone being out of pocket.
Keep an old fashioned small ledger showing what there is and what's been spent, and show folks it at every meet up. Get someone else to sign off on it and it's all well and truly above board.

Among friends no one's going to stress over monies like this, but there's always someone goes on a nag at folks. Smother that before it starts and it's all good.
Committees (can you tell I have no love of them ? too many meetings about when we're having another meeting and who said what at the last one but two back ) are all too often an obstruction to getting things done and chilling out in like minded company.

To be honest, I think it's greatly to your credit that you're both thinking so responsibly about this, but I think that's also the clearest evidence that you don't really need to formalise things unless everyone involved is keen to have elections for president, secretary, treasurer, vice president, tea convenor, education officer, et al
The only time it's really worth it is if there's a chance for grants, etc., and then I think you'd be well placed to look into Educational Charitable Trusts.....more thrice damned committee meetings though.

Best of luck with it
Mary

 

[santaman2000]

Was it Will Rogers or Mark Twain who once said, "I'd never join a club that would have me?"

 

[Graham_S]

Groucho Marx, I think.
As long ans you keep a note of monies received, and an inventory of kit, so you know who has paid/borrowed stuff, I'd say you're fine as you are.

 

[ol smokey]

Not in favour of Committees either, but what happens when the proverbial sh-- hits the fan and the wood gets burnt to ashes, who holds the baby? As a local authority Officer, I was responsible for the overseeing of Youth Clubs in my area
in one of the clubs, the Managment Committ had not met for ages, and the Club Leader was receiving income ffrom memberships and Tuck shop every week and paying it in regularly to the Club Bank account, this was all very well till
he required to draw some money out for ongoing costs. The bank required the signature of the Chairman and Treasurer
for withdrawals. It turned out that one had moved away and could not be traced, the other had died. What a long legal
hassle it was to get things sorted out. Do tread carefully.

 

[santaman2000]

Groucho Marx, I think.
As long ans you keep a note of monies received, and an inventory of kit, so you know who has paid/borrowed stuff, I'd say you're fine as you are.

I think you're right; on both points.

 

[Big Stu 12]

The question I would say is not when does.....

It depends on what sort of responsibility people want, I know that some don't want it, as some stage as the group grows then we will have to think about having liability insurance... and if group assets grow, then some may ask who owns the equipment, who is responsible to make sure that the kit is safe to use, and competence to use that Equipment...yda yda yda...

It may well be that the group grows on a friendship basis.. and no problems arise....but sooner or later the point will come from when the over whelming point will will be dictated by the circumstances...

 

[crosslandkelly]

The question I would say is not when does.....

It depends on what sort of responsibility people want, I know that some don't want it, as some stage as the group grows then we will have to think about having liability insurance... and if group assets grow, then some may ask who owns the equipment, who is responsible to make sure that the kit is safe to use, and competence to use that Equipment...yda yda yda...

It may well be that the group grows on a friendship basis.. and no problems arise....but sooner or later the point will come from when the over whelming point will will be dictated by the circumstances...

I for one, hope that it stays on a friendship basis. I haven't met everyone in the group, but those I have, I like. Trust is a commodity that I think we have. Anyway FioFO says it for our group.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

It depends how large the group becomes.

What always spells disaster is when you get schisms or splinter groups within the main organisation. If it gets to the point where there is a lot of communal kit but the same few people look after it/clean it for example.

"Are you the Suffolk Bushcraft Group?"

".... off! We're the Bushcraft Group of Suffolk!"

Splitter.......

 

[Chiseller]

When individuals become more important than the collective?

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