Your medical kit - its a mess!

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Buckshot

Mod
Mod
Jan 19, 2004
6,335
241
Oxford
sorry, yes, I should clarify a bit - there can be knock on effects of releasing pre-hospital that can be hard to mitigate with the more finite or limited resources of pre-hospital care - drops in blood pressure, loss of volume through further bleeding etcetera

My meaning about the time being important was more so that the follow on carers (at the hospital, or the heli-meds etc) know how long it’s been on for so can plan accordingly - and then it’s also important as the patient can end up passing through multiple hands and times and things can get stretched or distorted inadvertently. 1415hrs can stretch to ‘about 1430’ or ‘I think about 3pm’ if you see what I mean?

I have never put a tourniquet on pre-hospital, but have put them on in hospital (when I used to work in plastics reconstruction and it wasn’t unknown for free flap reconstructions to just let go, and even then it was very rare).

there has been lots of articles to and fro discussing use in civilian trauma (pros and cons) for years, and I don’t actually genuinely expect to need to use one pre-hospital, as the current guidelines still advocate direct pressure in a civilian setting as first line.
Tourniquets or haemostatic agents are for if bleeding cannot be controlled by direct pressure
Thanks for the clarification Ed.
Agreed on all the points you mention.
 

MrEd

Full Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,901
790
Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
Thanks for the clarification Ed.
Agreed on all the points you mention.

have added a line in my original post clarifying as well.
If I am honest most first aid situations I find myself are of the minor medical variety (diabetic hypo, faint etc), and anything trauma are very much walking wounded. Slips, trips minor cuts and sprains type stuff. Even then not very often at all, which is fine.
 

Buckshot

Mod
Mod
Jan 19, 2004
6,335
241
Oxford
There are some designed especially for that purpose!
Not an easy to carry dispenser though!
No idea about this supplier, just the first link on a google search
 

GSW

May 16, 2021
9
9
75
Carmarthenshire
I'm always one for constantly reviewing and repacking my kit.....

One of the things that we all carry is a medical kit. The contents of your med kit is generally based on your knowledge of treating injuries, confidence is the use of your med kit, stowage, cost, ease of use..... the list goes on.

A lot of med kits are commercially brought items with generic contents, all packed very nicely, with labelling and nice sterile wrappers, the pouch it comes in is normally bright red (which, incidentally is a very good idea).

We did a little lesson in the house this evening with old medical kits, the scenario being daddy had cut his leg really badly and fell over in the kitchen......

I coached the eldest through it and she did well. The resulting mess was this....

ac3a60bf009c9e0675b89cbd4ea10510.jpg


Afterwards, the main learning point for me was the dangerously long amount of time it took to open the med bag, then open a sealed dressing, then getting through another internal sterile wrapping, which led to panic and frustration in my daughter, which impacted on her ability to think clearly and act appropriately.......

So I got to thinking and researching. I looked at the in-house and vehicle med kits with a more critical eye. I took them all apart, taking everything out of the commercial wrappers and repacking each med kit in its own clear vacuum sealed pouch. So now they look like this....

a0cddaa769f03e7e4da1cb0fbfb59dd9.jpg


fdb68a2e405e122a09c326eecd1367c2.jpg


The bag is clear. You can see everything in it. Its vacuum sealed so its compact, waterproof and sealed off from the environment. If you need it, you tear it open and voilà, its all there for immediate use. No mess, no fuss, no having to waste valuable life saving time ripping your trauma bandage out of three layers before you can put it on your loved one/best friend and save their life......

*disclaimer for the Internet*

My med kits are designed to deal with catastrophic bleeds, with the possibility of multiple casualties, by a person with a good degree of training, not for the removal of a thorn in your finger or sort out a headache....

I know that some will say that all that wrapping is to keep each item sterile and prevent infection, but ask yourself this: if you're trapped in your car with a femoral bleed and I rock up with this kind of med kit, rip it open and start applying pressure to your bleed, do you even care about my med kit being 'sterile' or do you care about not dying......(infection control will come later my friend, don't worry).

I am not a medical professional. This is my idea and I thought I would share it. What you do with what you read is your responsibility.

Peace.

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The World is getting close to needing to add Potassium Iodide to the kit...................
 

AfterAll

New Member
Apr 9, 2021
1
0
56
Reservation
Most of the cuts I would get would involve my hands, so I wear gloves. Long sleeves, long pants, broken in boots keep me from other issues. I have a few bandaids and a couple of alcohol pads in my wallet. I don't carry a medical kit at all. I only carry essentials, and after all these years, I've never needed anything more.
 

Athos

Full Member
Mar 12, 2021
112
85
East Sussex
I'm always one for constantly reviewing and repacking my kit.....

One of the things that we all carry is a medical kit. The contents of your med kit is generally based on your knowledge of treating injuries, confidence is the use of your med kit, stowage, cost, ease of use..... the list goes on.

A lot of med kits are commercially brought items with generic contents, all packed very nicely, with labelling and nice sterile wrappers, the pouch it comes in is normally bright red (which, incidentally is a very good idea).

We did a little lesson in the house this evening with old medical kits, the scenario being daddy had cut his leg really badly and fell over in the kitchen......

I coached the eldest through it and she did well. The resulting mess was this....

ac3a60bf009c9e0675b89cbd4ea10510.jpg


Afterwards, the main learning point for me was the dangerously long amount of time it took to open the med bag, then open a sealed dressing, then getting through another internal sterile wrapping, which led to panic and frustration in my daughter, which impacted on her ability to think clearly and act appropriately.......

So I got to thinking and researching. I looked at the in-house and vehicle med kits with a more critical eye. I took them all apart, taking everything out of the commercial wrappers and repacking each med kit in its own clear vacuum sealed pouch. So now they look like this....

a0cddaa769f03e7e4da1cb0fbfb59dd9.jpg


fdb68a2e405e122a09c326eecd1367c2.jpg


The bag is clear. You can see everything in it. Its vacuum sealed so its compact, waterproof and sealed off from the environment. If you need it, you tear it open and voilà, its all there for immediate use. No mess, no fuss, no having to waste valuable life saving time ripping your trauma bandage out of three layers before you can put it on your loved one/best friend and save their life......

*disclaimer for the Internet*

My med kits are designed to deal with catastrophic bleeds, with the possibility of multiple casualties, by a person with a good degree of training, not for the removal of a thorn in your finger or sort out a headache....

I know that some will say that all that wrapping is to keep each item sterile and prevent infection, but ask yourself this: if you're trapped in your car with a femoral bleed and I rock up with this kind of med kit, rip it open and start applying pressure to your bleed, do you even care about my med kit being 'sterile' or do you care about not dying......(infection control will come later my friend, don't worry).

I am not a medical professional. This is my idea and I thought I would share it. What you do with what you read is your responsibility.

Peace.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
Evening, Devils advocate here. Sterile items have a shelf life, it’s displayed on the packaging. Other items also have shelf lives as they degrade over time and may be less effective. Do you know the shelf life of what’s in your kit? Bearing in mind it has been removed from the sterile packaging and repackaged. Some people might not care at the time, but then might decide they do care if they end up with an infection and try to take you to court - the world we live in I’m afraid.

Also, when you open that pack, you are writing off everything else inside it. Your hands are likely to be bloody, so you’re putting bloody hands in to a bag to retrieve a tourniquet? What kind of incident are you anticipating?
 
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Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
846
661
42
UK
Do you know the shelf life of what’s in your kit?

Also, when you open that pack, you are writing off everything else inside it. Your hands are likely to be bloody, so you’re putting bloody hands in to a bag to retrieve a tourniquet? What kind of incident are you anticipating?

You raise some good points. The shelf life of my kit is until 2022. I'll bin the lot used or not and replace with new. I do that with all my med kits and other gear that has shelf lives, same as shelf stable food stuffs.

I am happy with writing everything off once the pack is opened. The kit forms part of my layering system, which I apply to everything (not just my clothing). This med kit forms part of the layering system for med emergencies. Layer one is my personal med which I carry literally everywhere with me at all times. I can use it on me or one other person if required. Layer two is what you see here. It is kept in my vehicle at head hight. It is secured in such a way that I can reach it from the driver seat with one hand. I can treat myself or the passenger very quickly. I can grab it and sort injured people out as first responder at a car accident, for example. The contents are designed to sort out catastrophic bleeds on multiple casualties. It is not designed to wipe mucky fingers, sort out a hang over or put a sticky on little Jimmy's knee graze.





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Wildgoose

Full Member
May 15, 2012
505
192
Middlesex
Very true, if you need a tourniquet the loss of a few bandages is the least of your worries.
I like the idea, easy to grab and start getting the kit on to save lives.
 
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Wildgoose

Full Member
May 15, 2012
505
192
Middlesex
Evening, Devils advocate here. Sterile items have a shelf life, it’s displayed on the packaging. Other items also have shelf lives as they degrade over time and may be less effective. Do you know the shelf life of what’s in your kit? Bearing in mind it has been removed from the sterile packaging and repackaged. Some people might not care at the time, but then might decide they do care if they end up with an infection and try to take you to court - the world we live in I’m afraid.

Also, when you open that pack, you are writing off everything else inside it. Your hands are likely to be bloody, so you’re putting bloody hands in to a bag to retrieve a tourniquet? What kind of incident are you anticipating?
The claim culture is starting to drop off slightly but is still about so I get your point, that said, in my experience if you are doing what you feel is right (even if someone disagrees later) the courts are generally pretty reasonable.
 

Pupers

Member
May 6, 2021
29
29
63
Dartmoor
People taken to court for performing First Aid on someone! When has this ever happened in the U.K.?

Just asking, as I have never heard of this before.
 

Artois

New Member
Oct 28, 2012
4
2
Yorkshire
Just read this very interesting thread and realised how unprepared I am, I am a hunter who spends most of the time on my own in unpopulated areas of Scotland with no phone signal and although I always carry a small first aid pack, I will admit that I have never opened it to look what is in it, I am going to change that this evening!
 
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Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
846
661
42
UK
Just read this very interesting thread and realised how unprepared I am, I am a hunter who spends most of the time on my own in unpopulated areas of Scotland with no phone signal and although I always carry a small first aid pack, I will admit that I have never opened it to look what is in it, I am going to change that this evening!
Hey I'm glad it's sparked your interest! Take a look at your med kit buddy. Unpack it all and see what's what..... first thing to put back in is knowledge! (Take a first aid course, there's even online ones which are free!)

In your line of work, considering the lack of mobile (date and reception) coverage, getting yourself an emergency beacon or GPS communication device may be worth considering as well? Take a look at the Garmin InReach range

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Artois

New Member
Oct 28, 2012
4
2
Yorkshire
Good advice! My iphone works fine as a GPS and I have an OS Maps subscription so finding my way is no problem. I’ve now overhauled my med kit adding a few things which might be needed in a pinch and feel a lot more confident I could deal with most eventualities baring stroke and heart failure! What I’m considering is a sat phone but these are pricey things to buy and run, we’ll have to see.
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
83
Birmingham
Evening, Devils advocate here. Sterile items have a shelf life, it’s displayed on the packaging. Other items also have shelf lives as they degrade over time and may be less effective. Do you know the shelf life of what’s in your kit? Bearing in mind it has been removed from the sterile packaging and repackaged. Some people might not care at the time, but then might decide they do care if they end up with an infection and try to take you to court - the world we live in I’m afraid.
I repack everything, edc, Survival, and first aid kits once a year so everything is fresh. Tablets etc are what I use in the second year and then bin them after. Never had a problem with any kit and best before dates except plasters and wipes. No idea what the best before date on a No.9 is actually saying it is good for. If I am using a no. 9 on someone, sterile is not their biggest issue at the moment.

Also, when you open that pack, you are writing off everything else inside it. Your hands are likely to be bloody, so you’re putting bloody hands in to a bag to retrieve a tourniquet? What kind of incident are you anticipating?
There is a train of thought in the UK about carrying them for use in extreme cases like a bomb.

No. You are protected in law if you perform first aid as a ‘Good Samaritan’
Only if you have not taken a first aid at work course (Outdoor first aid course counts I think) otherwise you need insurance. People have been sued in the UK as they warn you about it.

I am looking at all my kits from a lightweight point of view and just general use and a few thoughts have come to mind. A bandana, safety pins and duck tape covers all of my first aid needs. A my use only kit of tiger balm, blister repair, plasters etc.
The case descripted at the start is missing something, a first aid kit is not first aid.
Dr ABC?
Why is this person on the floor bleeding?
Do you get a response?
If you got a response, that is airway and breathing sorted as well.
Circulation, grab a tea towel and swivel the person onto the flour, slap their hand on the tea towel over the bleed and call an ambulance.
8 minutes later, the professionals are dealing with the person.
 
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Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
83
Birmingham
“Only if you have not taken a first aid at work course (Outdoor first aid course counts I think) otherwise you need insurance. People have been sued in the UK as they warn you about it.”

https://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/canibesued
Yeah this is the problem with legal stuff because they say it has never happened however the important word is successful. It has happened just to date no one has ever lost so you can end up in court and need a lawyer which all costs money. In the article st John's who have been sued for a start provide insurance to anyone passing a first aid at work course for non work first aid. St John's a charity waste money on insurance that according to that site is not needed. The answer to the question can you be sued is yes however so far no one has lost.
 
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