whats your preferance ?
- Thread starter David.s
- Start date
-
Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
Voivode said:
I believe he was actually refering to the George Mallory 1924 expedition, which there is some small dispute as to if they did summit or not
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/352418.stm
Technology and sherpass certainly but part of that technology is weather forcast, GPS, known mapped routes, satnav communitation, modern medicall understanding of acclimatisation, stamina training and diet requirments, and modern ropes and hardware.
All those support your modern equipment in general but conversley because of them it also could support the point Boisdevie was making about the clothing worn on that particular expedition. I did see a similar documentary on the subject and If memory serves the modern climbers were very surpised at just how well the reconstruted clothing did compare to their usual modern equivalents.
I voted for a mix
Almost all of my hiking/camping/trekking is historically based, so the traditional materials and tools are what I use. Once you learn and use the traditional methods/tools, you adjust to their limitations - just as you do with modern gear. I have often been much more comfortable with the traditional gear (that I have experience with) than other people have been with their modern gear (only some of which had little experience with that gear).
To each their own.
Mike Ameling - out living in and stomping around the Hinterlands of NE Iowa - USA
To each their own.
Mike Ameling - out living in and stomping around the Hinterlands of NE Iowa - USA
Pick and mix works for me I think. I've done the friction bow and its hard work, so I won't use it again, but at least I did it (and its not traditional in the UK). The modern fire steel is fantastic kit, goes everywhere with me. Ventile is nice, used it as a kid and got wet, so I prefer cotton and wool garments and a Gortex shell, I have working stoves almost a hundred years old but tend to use modern kit like a Trangia, Nova or 111, 199, Omnifuel etc. I love my Montagna boots, years old, but just too heavy now, I used down bags and coats for years, now I use synthetic (works better in the damp or wet for me). I still use my Silva Explorer compass, years old but does the job, and I still like the old army mess tins. So for me, pick and mix works;
My Blacks 'Mountain Tent' (22lb Egyptian Ventile Cotton, two man) was replaced by a Vango Force ten Mk3 (@12lb) and later my Hex 3 at well under 2kg. My next tent will be for group camping a big Tipi, maybe a six person in comfort, but still lighter than my Mountain Tent, so, old design, modern materials, everyone is happy
My Blacks 'Mountain Tent' (22lb Egyptian Ventile Cotton, two man) was replaced by a Vango Force ten Mk3 (@12lb) and later my Hex 3 at well under 2kg. My next tent will be for group camping a big Tipi, maybe a six person in comfort, but still lighter than my Mountain Tent, so, old design, modern materials, everyone is happy
Glen said:I believe he was actually refering to the George Mallory 1924 expedition, which there is some small dispute as to if they did summit or not
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/352418.stm
Technology and sherpass certainly but part of that technology is weather forcast, GPS, known mapped routes, satnav communitation, modern medicall understanding of acclimatisation, stamina training and diet requirments, and modern ropes and hardware.
All those support your modern equipment in general but conversley because of them it also could support the point Boisdevie was making about the clothing worn on that particular expedition. I did see a similar documentary on the subject and If memory serves the modern climbers were very surpised at just how well the reconstruted clothing did compare to their usual modern equivalents.
I voted for a mix
Right...
My point was that, while that expedition in the 30's had some fancy clothes that impressed some modern fellow (who it does not appear actually claimed that those clothes performed equivalently, but rather that he was impressed; That does not mean this fellow know anything about life before Gore-Tex and thus his being 'impressed' isn't all that meaningful in an absolute sense), that's all they had. Modern fellows (and ladies!) have all those things you've enumerated for me and more; this technological 'progress' has allowed the explosion of Everest attempts and successes seen in the past 30 years. No profusion of silk clothing is going to yield the same results.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no technological cheerleader. I wouldn't be on this board if I was. But facts are facts; technology allows us to do things that our bodies cannot do alone, and the higher the technology, the further one can go. What we do for fun or any of our other reasons is great, and I'm behind it all. But you can't convince me that the old ways are just as powerful as modern equipment in allowing more people to go further for longer.
my personel preference is a mix of both reason being i like comfort plus the pressure on the enviroment to use pure bushcraft would be extreme.
if you can imagine what and area would look like after say 10 people had made shelters using pure natural materials .
as i have pointed out before in post i think for me any way bushcraft skills are a compliment to my camping skills , i like gathering natural foods but i never take much i take enough to complement what i have taken out with me .
as i know i am still relativly new to it all (get the feeling i always will be tbh ) i may have a different view .
if you can imagine what and area would look like after say 10 people had made shelters using pure natural materials .
as i have pointed out before in post i think for me any way bushcraft skills are a compliment to my camping skills , i like gathering natural foods but i never take much i take enough to complement what i have taken out with me .
as i know i am still relativly new to it all (get the feeling i always will be tbh ) i may have a different view .
I hope you dont mind seeing theses here if so please remove
Sorry bit small but its Doug Scotts gear he went up Everest in 73 He ditched some of his gear as it was uncomfortable!
1953 and 1975 Everest boots.
Hope you liked the pics Dave
ps I like modern and traditional gear!
Sorry bit small but its Doug Scotts gear he went up Everest in 73 He ditched some of his gear as it was uncomfortable!
1953 and 1975 Everest boots.
Hope you liked the pics Dave
ps I like modern and traditional gear!
O
Old Timer
Guest
I use whatever is useful. old or new. One of my favourite bits of kit is my 1940/50s canvas bedroll
[/URL][/IMG]
J
JadaFecT
Guest
Agile said:Personally I would go for a mixture and sit on the fence a little.
To anyone who says "old is the best" I give one item which should silence you all - waterproof (Goretex etc) boots.
Honestly though, I like having a mixture of both the old and the new. When it comes to making fire or performing tasks, I try and go for the traditional approach, as this requires more skill but less man-made resources.
If I have to rely on something, then a modern fabric in extreme conditions takes a lot of beating - hence the popularity of modern fabric jackets.
Agile
Silence me? never! I use dunlop volleys for my walks(canvas), as a fair few involve walking groin deep through creeks. Goretex boots become expensive foot buckets
And back onto the original track I go....
On the Everest clothing front, there was an article in the Westmorland Gazette last week about how Leo Houlding is part of a team following George Mallory's 1924 route.
According to the article they'd be wearing period clothing and using period equipment but looking at the vids so far there seems to a lot of gortex involved. Perhaps the period gear bit is just a sideline for the documentary.
[Edit] The article
The expedition can be followed on their website.
http://www.ueverest.com/index.html
According to the article they'd be wearing period clothing and using period equipment but looking at the vids so far there seems to a lot of gortex involved. Perhaps the period gear bit is just a sideline for the documentary.
[Edit] The article
The expedition can be followed on their website.
http://www.ueverest.com/index.html
One of the ladies on a Historic knitting forum I'm on has re-created all of the knitted garments from socks and gloves to vests & pullovers to watchcap for this attempt. I think she has agreed to post her notes if anyone is interested.
cheers,
Toddy
cheers,
Toddy
I tend to use whatever is best, but find myself using more and more natural stuff as opposed to man made stuff. Summer is definitely the time to try using woolen blankets for sleeping with, as I usually use a manmade sleeping bag. I have cotton wax jackets and woolen Dockers shirts, Swanndri and Johnson Woolen Mills woolen jackets, woolen and felt hats, canvas tilley hat, leather and canvas bags, it just goes on.
I'd really like to get a thin canvas tarp sometime, maybe make it up myself, or I could speak to Eric!
I'd really like to get a thin canvas tarp sometime, maybe make it up myself, or I could speak to Eric!
I'm for taking the best from both worlds... especially when modern intelligent design and construction can be applied to traditional materials.
This is where things start to really shine... as stated before, swanndri is a good example of this with wool being a truly ancient material being used in modern garments with the facility to mass produce so we can all benefit.
Tilley again... cotton canvas plus modern design features equals greatness.
One of the often overlooked areas we as users and consumers benefit from is the ease in which we can obtain these items... that's a real modern benefit for me anyway.
This is where things start to really shine... as stated before, swanndri is a good example of this with wool being a truly ancient material being used in modern garments with the facility to mass produce so we can all benefit.
Tilley again... cotton canvas plus modern design features equals greatness.
One of the often overlooked areas we as users and consumers benefit from is the ease in which we can obtain these items... that's a real modern benefit for me anyway.
I use a mixture of both. Basically I use/adapt whatever I have got that I can or that I can afford to buy.
I use what ever i have, but i dont really like using my gortex jacket when im out in the forest..
I use a healthy mix of the two.
My preference is for older style, natural materials but that is mainly an aesthetic choice, I really don't like the feel of synthetics and they soon start to stink on a long trip.
If I'm going to use a synthetic item it has to do something that is just not possible for natural materials to match.
My preference is for older style, natural materials but that is mainly an aesthetic choice, I really don't like the feel of synthetics and they soon start to stink on a long trip.
If I'm going to use a synthetic item it has to do something that is just not possible for natural materials to match.
I mainly use the kit I have left over after my RAF service, Lots of green and cammo stuff as it's still the cheapest kit I have.
That wasn't on your poll so I put modern, OK.
Andy
That wasn't on your poll so I put modern, OK.
Andy
I think you use what works best for you.
To intentionally use "old" kit makes no sense unless your trying for a particular period. It was all new once and when you start down that path where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide it's modern?
To intentionally use "old" kit makes no sense unless your trying for a particular period. It was all new once and when you start down that path where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide it's modern?
Similar threads
