What you need to make a knife

[Shing]

I teach a knifemaking course which takes people who have never made a knife before through all the process to make a knife. My aim is to teach people to use readily avialable tools and materials to make a knife to a good standard.

The tools materials I would recommend to people wanting to make a knife are:

Materials

O1 tool steel also known as ground flat stock and guage plate 3-4mm thick
A hardwood such as cocobolo, African blackwood or lignum vitae cut into 10mm thick pieces and seasoned for a year or more. Cloth based Tufnol can also be used
Brass rod 1/8 or 3/16 thick, heated to red heat and aloowed to cool slowly to anneal it for handle rivets
Anneal brass tube for lanyard
2 part epoxy resin
Vulcanised fibre (optional)

Tools

1/8 or 3/16 drill for making holes for the handle
Drill for brass tube
Ball pein hammer
Heavy piece of steel to act as an anvil for rivetting
Hacksaw and bimetal hacksaw blades 18tpi
Pillar drill
Large course file for roughing out bevels and filing blade to shape
Angle grinder for roughing out bevels
Large smooth file for cleaning up bevels
Large round file for rounding plunge cut
A selection aluminium oxide/silicon carbide paper or cloth from 60 grit to 400 grit
Heavy work bench
Vice
small clamps to clamp handles for gluing
Pliers

Heat treating

For small thin blades up to 3mm thick and 75 mm long can be attempted with a large blow torch and one or more fire bricks
Cooking oil in a metal container deep enough to submerge the blade

Reading

How to make knives by Loveless and Barney

All the above can be had for under £200 if shopped for carefully and would enable you to make a full tang knife to an acceptable quality.

 

[andyn]

Shing, Knife making is something i'd eventually like to try and this post has just answered so many question i had running through my head. Thanks.

 

[g4ghb]

me too!

a question i have been meaning to ask and you havn't answered is ....

Does the oil not catch light when you plunge a 'red' blade in it!?

 

[Shing]

Thanks for the interest, the oil does catch fire when the hot metal is plunged into it but it goes out quickly when the blade is fully submerged or when the blade cools down. The flame is quite small unless you are doing big bowie blades. always wear a face shield, heavy leather gloves and natural fibres like cotton or wool when heat treating and hold the blade with long pliers or suspend on wire.

Also use protective equipement when doing any kind of knife making activity.

 

[ghubca]

is cooking oil the best oil to use for 01 steel, are there any other types of quenching oils....

 

[Shing]

I use cooking oil on O1 with good results, there are purpose quenching oils like this one here http://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Compounds_and_Solutions_for_Metals.html

but I know a lot of well known knifemakers in the US use all sorts of concoctions like cooking oil, transmission oil, used motor oil, bacon grease etc as well as commercial quenching oil for hardening so I don't think the actual oil makes a great deal of difference.

 

[tomtom]

shing.. great thread.. how much should you heat the blade before quenching? do you pre-heat the oil? why heat the pins and lanyard metal? do you epoxy the pins too?

questions questions and more where they came from!

 

[Shing]

The blade should be heated slowly to a mid orange colour. I take about 10 minutes to bring the blade up to the right temperature. Slow heating reduces the risk of warping. You can use a magnet to test the blade, when the magnet stops sticking to the blade its at the right temperature. I use a long magentic screw driver. I usually do my heat treating at night in the dark to see the colours better.

I don't heat the oil, I test the blade after hardening with an old file, if the file slides off the blade, its OK, if it bites into the steel, it has not hardened and will need to be done again. A good book on practical heat treating is by Tubal Cain http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl/202-2921523-7742244 which includes coloured photos on the colours steel should be heated to for hardening and tempering

I heat the brass pins to anneal them, brass rod is work hardened by cold drawing through dies during manufacture and is quite hard and brittle. It can chip and split when hammered during riveting and needs to be annealed to make it more malleable.

I don't epoxy the rivets, I don't think its needed because the holes for the pins are countersunk and the pins are peened into the holes creating a very strong and waterproof mechanical joint and the holes are sealed. I put the rivets in after the handle is glued and shaped to near final size.

 

[Neiltoo]

Great info thanks.
Can you really use a blow torch for the heat treatment? I thought you needed to get up to 800 deg C - will a blowtorch do that ?
Ive been building up to trying my first blade for a while now . Just ordered the flat stock but I hadnt worked out how I was going to do the heat treatment - id thought of a ceramic kiln until I found out how expensive they are. A book I read suggests Oxyacetylene but i havnt got that sort of money to spend.

 

[Longstrider]

Shing, You mention an angle grinder for roughing out the bevels. Is there not a good chance of blueing the steel using an angle grinder? Or does this not matter if the steel is to be heat treated afterwards? I am hoping to make my own knife from scratch before long from a bar of 01 and already have both a bench grinder and an angle grinder but would have been loathe to use either for fear of damaging the steel. I had resigned myself to the idea of doing all the work by hand with an assortment of files, but can see that stock removal would be far simpler with machine tools. Is a whetstone grinder like this a good investment for the job? http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=060510225

If I buy 01 tool steel stock, will I be able to work it "as it is" or will it need softening in a similar way to the annealing of the brass rod before it becomes soft enough to work by hand with a file?

Any advice much appreciated

 

[JohnC]

I've used 01 steel up to 4mm thick using files (though if I had a belt sander I'dve used ut ) then heat treated in a charcoal pot made from half an old gas canister, (about 18" across) using a foot pump to get the temp up to non-magnetic. I'd agree about working in at least semi dark or shading your work. I used veg oil to quench, then tempered it at 200C in the kitchen oven (make sure you clean it well!!) It's possible to do all this on a budget.

 

[Martyn]

Shing, You mention an angle grinder for roughing out the bevels. Is there not a good chance of blueing the steel using an angle grinder?

Not Shing, but maybe I can offer an answer. It doesnt really matter if you blue it (you will), because it's customary to anneal or normalise a blade before hardening it. You relieve all tghe stresses caused by heat during manufacture and leave the blade in a ready state for hardening. Basically just crack in and dont worry about it.

Or does this not matter if the steel is to be heat treated afterwards?

Correct - see above.

If I buy 01 tool steel stock, will I be able to work it "as it is" or will it need softening in a similar way to the annealing of the brass rod before it becomes soft enough to work by hand with a file?

O1 comes annealed and ready for working and subsequent heat treat.

 

[Shing]

Heat treatment on small blades can be done with a blow torch but you will need some way to contain the heat. One way is to use what is known as a one brick forge. This is simply a firebrick with a hole drilled along its length big enough to contain a blade for heat treating and a hole drilled into its side at right angles to the first hole to allow the flame of the torch to play on the blade. The technique is to use the flame to heat the inside of the brick rather than the blade itself and allow the heat from the fire brick to heat the blade evenly. Soft fire bricks can be cut easily with wood working tools.

Like Martyn said with the angle grinder, it will heat the blade but dosen't do any harm. I would suggest practising on some scrap steel first to get the hang of using an angle grinder to do bevels as it requires a delicate touch to stop it grinding too deep.

I rough out all me blades with an angle grinder since grinding discs are cheap compared to sanding belts and its quick

 

[chrisvreugd]

hi, I'm planning to make a knife, but I've some questions.

do you have to quench in boiling oil, or isn't that necessarily.

then tempered it at 200C in the kitchen oven (make sure you clean it well!!) It's possible to do all this on a budget.

why and what do you have to clean?

can you explain again how to test your steel if it is hard enough after quenching?

 

[leon-1]

When hardening steel it depends on the type of steel whether you quench in oil or not (W1 would be quenched in water / brine, O1 is quenched in Oil that doesn't need to be boiling). Stainless steels can require a thermal chamber to do HT as they tend to be air quenched.

When tempering you clean of the swarf (sp) and oil as this will allow you to see colour change better and it will also stop you from stinking out the kitchen.

 

[JohnC]

I cleaned the knife after it had cooled enough to handle after its oil quenching in hot water and soap, if I had put it into the (kitchen) oven still covered in veg oil the wife would have used it on me :twak: with engine oil the smell would have been worse. I really wouldn't use boiling oil. just a metal container that you can immerse the blade in length ways, (I did it edge first as thats the bit you want hardened). and use veg oil out of the container, room or air temp.
You may get a flash of flame, but nothing like you'd get with boiling oil!!!
If you used a file on the plain unhardened 01 stell you get a feel for the "bite" of the file on the steel. Once the blade is hardened (hopefully) and you've rubbed off thr firescale, sliding a file over the surface will feel very different, there'll be not bite to it.
I'd agree 100% with Shing on practicing with a bit of cheap metal, making a trial knife so you get a good feel for handling the tools and the processes especially the heat treating, then you'll feel a lot happier when you use your 01 billet

 

[Shing]

The best way to learn knifemaking like most things is practice, the more you do the better you're get. The first knife is seldom the knife you thought you wanted to make but by the third or forth, you'll be getting much better. Buy enough O1 to make 3-4 knives.

 

[Hedgehog]

The best way to learn knifemaking like most things is practice, the more you do the better you're get. The first knife is seldom the knife you thought you wanted to make but by the third or forth, you'll be getting much better. Buy enough O1 to make 3-4 knives.

Indeed, getting to know the materials & the sequence of events quickly builds your confidence, by starting small you can run through the whole process & get a result before boredom gets the better of you - erm, then you never want to stop

It's also possible to heat treat in a gas 'coal effect' fire by creating a narrow 'cave' out of the fake 'coals' to trap the heat - I've done this twice with small 01 tool steel blades & a warm oil quench - they both worked fine - just mind your carpet!! (put down a fire blanket at the very least & be prepaired to get the blade back in the fireplace very fast if it falls) - better still don't try it in the first place I guess.

 

[Shing]

I used to do HT in the coal effect fire in the lounge much to the displeasure of SWMBO, it was hard getting it up to temperature and the house ponged of burnt oil.

 

[Neiltoo]

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed here -
I think Im ready to have a go now