What vehicle for bushcraft?

[British Red]

As Red said, biodiesel should be carbon neutral. Availability can be a problem though.

Ahh now here we have a great thought. <Pulls out soap box>

So, instead of paying farmers "set aside" we grow sunflowers, oilseed rape etc. Its pressed and refined as "biodiesel". Its sold through existing petrol stations. Results:

1. The money currently wasted on "set aside" goes to carbon neutral fuel
2. More money is available to support British farming
3. Reliance on other countries (many of whom have quetionable human rights etc. is reduced)
4. Net carbon emissions are reduced

All those in favour?

Red

 

[JonnyP]

Sounds like utopia to me, but that would involve a politician with guts raising taxes and spending it on public transport. Not sure we have anyone who will say they'll raise taxes any more.

How much is spent on road maintenance ??? I think there would be a saving

 

[Dougster]

How much is spent on road maintenance ??? I think there would be a saving

It would appear that by me, just enough is spent to stop the Audi TTs from grounding. Makes cycling a nightmare.....

....Hang on, seems someones ahead of you.........

 

[Spacemonkey]

Driving like the idiots who 'soup' up their cars has the biggest effect on the environment and other people.

My MX5 is tuned up nicely thanks, and it's more efficient as a side effect that actually results in better mpg now. It also means I don't have to floor it as much to access power to overtake those lovely Warrior beasties and 40mph Corsas on the A420.

 

[JonnyP]

My MX5 is tuned up nicely thanks, and it's more efficient as a side effect that actually results in better mpg now. It also means I don't have to floor it as much to access power to overtake those lovely Warrior beasties and 40mph Corsas on the A420.

How you getting on with your sportstrak Nick ?

 

[British Red]

I looked up the CO2 emissions for a return flight to Malaga (seems fairly typical holiday destination) for a family of 4. This generates 1.5 tonnes of CO2.

A petrol 4x4 giving, say 25mpg and driven 12000 miles a year generates 5 tonnes of CO2.

Doc,

Thanks for your post - it made me do some further checks of my own. Your figures are close to what I came up with - but do of course omit that the family of 4 still drive a car! A 1.4 litre car emits 3.4 tonnes of CO2 in a year - add that to your Malaga trip and it turn up around even - which means soemone with a big gas guzzling 4x4 who holidays in the Lakes and a family with a medium hatchback who fly to Malaga.

Neither is better or worse than the other. Start throwing in a 2.0l family saloon though and a trip to the US and you are into the territory of 2 big 4x4s - interesting huh?

Red

 

[Martyn]

Doc,

Thanks for your post - it made me do some further checks of my own. Your figures are close to what I came up with - but do of course omit that the family of 4 still drive a car! A 1.4 litre car emits 3.4 tonnes of CO2 in a year - add that to your Malaga trip and it turn up around even - which means soemone with a big gas guzzling 4x4 who holidays in the Lakes and a family with a medium hatchback who fly to Malaga.

Neither is better or worse than the other. Start throwing in a 2.0l family saloon though and a trip to the US and you are into the territory of 2 big 4x4s - interesting huh?

Red

Interesting. So basically by owning your 4x4, you are tyrading off your continental holiday. Sounds fair to me.

Now just to find a way of stopping 4x4 owners from flying in planes.

But wait, what aboput the 1.4l family who dont fly abroad? They are 1.4 tonnes a year ahead of the 4x4 owners.

Lets forget about holidays for a minute.

4x4 = 5tonnes of CO2
1.4L = 3.4 tonnes of CO2

Which is the most "bushcraft"?

Oh and by tyhe way, a series II disco that does an average of 15mpg, puts 12.5 tons of CO2 out per year.

Some of the worst offenders by miles are some of the older series landrovers.

The freelander is much better with a 205g/km CO2 output (2.05 tonnes for 10,000k/year), which puts it well down into the family car bracket. Not all 4x4's are evil, but certainly the older landrovers and the big rangerovers and bigger engined disco's ...and also warriors and their ilk, are the evil ones.

Out of interests, anyone know how many acres of rapeseed we would need to grow, in order to fuel the whole country?

 

[British Red]

Interesting. So basically by owning your 4x4, you are tyrading off your continental holiday. Sounds fair to me.

.

Cool me too

4x4 = 5tonnes of CO2
1.4L = 3.4 tonnes of CO2

.

4x4 = 5tonnes of CO2 but subscribes to carbon neutral so net effect = zero

1.4L = 3.4 tonnes of CO2 but does nothing so net effect = 3.4 tonnes

Now which one sounds most bushcrafty?

Martyn mate, I love the civilised debate but I suspect I'll never convince you or indeed vice versa

Red

 

[bogflogger]

I think the answer is actually there, but not in production:

LPG/Flash Steam Engines.

I was a Tea-Boy/ Coal Humper back in my teens on a Sentinel S8 Steam Lorry, and that thing could really shift!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel_Waggon_Works

With a bit of modern engineering skill, Flash Steam/LPG virtually removes the combustion process from the equation!

 

[Martyn]

Cool me too



4x4 = 5tonnes of CO2 but subscribes to carbon neutral so net effect = zero

1.4L = 3.4 tonnes of CO2 but does nothing so net effect = 3.4 tonnes

Now which one sounds most bushcrafty?

Martyn mate, I love the civilised debate but I suspect I'll never convince you or indeed vice versa

Red

How many people actually use biodiesel Red? You keep referring to carbon neutral, that's not a valid argument unless all 4x4 drivers subscribe to it.

About biodiesel, yeah on the face of it, it would seem good, but doesnt it's viability for a select few, depend on the fact it hasnt been uptaken en-masse? Could we really grow enough rapeseed to fuel every engine in the country?

 

[Dougster]

My MX5 is tuned up nicely thanks, and it's more efficient as a side effect that actually results in better mpg now. It also means I don't have to floor it as much to access power to overtake those lovely Warrior beasties and 40mph Corsas on the A420.

Tuning and souping up are different methinks. Glueing on a spoiler and putting a fat exhaust are wildy different, I was alluding to the mindset. A colleague who has an MX5 does the same MPG as my Fiat! Just can't fit my 5 stone mutt in the back of his. Fast and fuel efficient are not exclusive as my Volvo proves to me.

A420 is fun though, esp with a nice car - I remember going along it trying to get to the RUH at the same time as the ambulance carrying my wife (in labour at the time).

Most of the time i just enjoy the views.

 

[JonnyP]

What bugs me is why do people pick on 4x4s all the time when there are offenders, just as bad or worse, why not limo's, bentleys, jags, empty buses, horse lorries (why can't the horses walk???), rolls royces, easy jet, etc etc. I drive a landy 110 and it is full (and I mean full) of my trade tools, and it tows a 2.7 ton trailer, which follows me nearly everywhere. Just because a load of women want to protect their children, on the way to school, in the best way they can and that upsets a lot of people because it takes them an extra 5 minutes to get to work, they blame all 4x4 owners including me, and if anyone out there can tell me a better vehicle for pulling my trailer, then I would like to hear from them.
Phew, thats better out than in..............

 

[Martyn]

What bugs me is why do people pick on 4x4s all the time when there are offenders, just as bad or worse, why not limo's, bentleys, jags, empty buses, horse lorries (why can't the horses walk???), rolls royces, easy jet, etc etc. I drive a landy 110 and it is full (and I mean full) of my trade tools, and it tows a 2.7 ton trailer, which follows me nearly everywhere. Just because a load of women want to protect their children, on the way to school, in the best way they can and that upsets a lot of people because it takes them an extra 5 minutes to get to work, they blame all 4x4 owners including me, and if anyone out there can tell me a better vehicle for pulling my trailer, then I would like to hear from them.
Phew, thats better out than in..............

I dont think anyone here has an issue with those folks who need the vehicle Jon, but the old series landies are eco-vandals, no question. You are absolutely right though, they are no worse than some of the big jags and bentlys, rollers etc.. But then there are the same issues for all of them as well.

 

[Dougster]

I was sat in traffic in Bath, with a 4.2 A3 in front, a Range rover sport to the right and a Merc 500 to the left of the Audi, all had one passenger, all clean, all going to city centre. None had tow bars. There is a clear distinction between you.

There is even a 4 litre bentley in Bath with the plate LE55 TAX!!!

Do the Americans differentiate between SUVs and utility? I'm sure we do for Tax or am I wrong again?

 

[pumbaa]

Just as an off the wall suggestion , how about some thing like This
Pumbaa

 

[Spacemonkey]

How you getting on with your sportstrak Nick ?

Loved it to bits! Great for off roading, well green laning which strictly speaking is ON roading...
As it is small and has a 1.6 litre engine it is quite economical for a 4x4, but a TDV6 Rangey Sport would equal it, and I know which I'd rather have!!!

Have swapped it for a 70cc Monkey Bike (thousands of miles per gallon, or thereabouts) and some cold hard cash with a mate when I bought his dad's VW Camper. Mate has a mate with access to his own off road course set in 400 acres (and no, they won't like camping before anyone thinks the same as I did... ) and he favours Sporties above all other, so I still get to drive my Sporty off road, with other Sporties thrown in, and I don't have to pay to maintain it! Everyone's a winner... Oh, and the Monkey has knobblies, so that will be up on the ridgeway soon...

ps, I'm only up to issue number 44 if you remember what I mean!!

 

[longshot]

just a thought but what about ATVs small, yes but light. fairly good carrying capacity and easy on fuel. plus if used right ie no tearing about on sensitive lands not too hard on the environment.

dean

 

[bogflogger]

Nice idea, but ATV's are not Road Legal in the UK.

 

[longshot]

Nice idea, but ATV's are not Road Legal in the UK.

their not road legal in canada either but lots of folks here use them every day to get around the small towns here in Newfoundland plus for example, i can walk 2 minutes and be able to be deep in the bush

dean

 

[bogflogger]

OH Yes Indeedy:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2257931,00.html