What before RayMears?

[Hoodoo]

Incidentally, as I have just realised that I'm currently at the end of this thread, I may as well mention my hero, the great John Muir. True, he rarely divulges any wilderness living skills in his writings and he never wrote a book on bushcraft, but if he can go out into the deepest bush with nothing but hard bread and tea, and very often without a coat, he's the daddy! :biggthump :biggthump :biggthump

Without a DOUBT!! :biggthump His travels are amazing feats of endurance. But Muir did not focus on the elements of bushcraft in his writing but mainly on the beauty and science of nature. I never cease to be amazed by his writings.

Even when he's in the most dangerous of situations, he always seemed to keep his sense of humor and spirts up. This--more than anything--is critical to surviving the worst case scenario, imo. If you've never read it, there is a wonderful story in his book "Travels in Alaska": An Adventure with a Dog and a Glacier, that really shows you what kind of character he was. Truly an amazing story!! That whole Alaskan trip was pretty amazing.

Muir was a risk taker. Few men could ever follow his paths. He's definitely one of those people you want to think twice about before trying to emulate. And talk about a minimalist!


And speaking of minimalists, it reminds me of the opening story in Rutstrum's New Way of the Wilderness about Lillian Alling. Here's a link to the story for those who are unfamiliar with it. There is a book available on the story as well but I haven't read it. A google search on Lillian Alling will turn up quite a bit of info.

Lillian Alling

 

[bambodoggy]

I have spent at least 40 nights a year for the last 20 years in the woods, travelled in 47 country’s around the world for one reason or another and have spent nights under my poncho in most, I have gained experience and made many mistakes, some life threatening. Ray has brought Bushcraft to the front room and has made it look easy. Which is great but how many times dose he do some thing and people try to emulate it in the wrong environment? How many people spend a weekend in the woods and go home wet, cold and hungry, How many give up during the first night and retreat to there cars?, how many have lost, misplaced or broken kit? And how many think its ok I will be going home tomorrow. How many by the kit never test it or practice with it, have never been camping or is overweight never exercises apart from walking up the stairs to get to his office in the morning but decide to through the there new kit in a ruck and head for the hills.

Adi....I don't mean this to sound funny but I just can't understand what you're saying above...
There's always going to be a few idiots that try things in the wrong way or place and let the side down, that's the case in all things humans try but the vast majority imo have had a possitive attitude and while they may make mistakes along the way, that is how they learn. I for one have been sleeping out almost as long as you and can honestly say I still have heaps to learn and I made even more mistakes learning what I've learned so far. Sometimes for me the "mistake" has actually been the best part of the trip....and then again sometimes not.
I'm one of the ones that choose to keep learning and keep practicing my skills or hobby or whatever where others have not, I am sad that they have not enjoted things as much as I have or preffer to do other things but I'm happy that they have tried it at least. I've lost count of the number of musical instroments I've tried to learn to play over the years, I've given up on every single one and resigned myself to the fact that I am just not musical...however, I now have a harmonica and although I'm fairly sure I'll give that up in time when I realise I'm never going to play it well but in the mean time I'm having great fun trying ):

I like Ray....he has his faults like we all do, some may say he's too commercial now but hey, I'd just say he's very lucky, he gets to be a big kid in the woods and gets paid plenty for doing it...if we're honest wouldn't pretty much all of us like that?
I agree with others on this thread, he was in the right place at the right time but I'm pleased he's brought bushcraft out of the shadows and made it more possible to the masses....
When people know the great outdoors is there, it's up to them what they do with it...

Just my few pence worth.... :wave:

 

[Adi]

Bambodoggy sorry I did not make myself that clear, yes, the mistakes I have learnt at some point but I learnt them in a fairly controlled environment of one night sleep outs in local woods. Now most weekends I go up on the downs and I see people camping out all over the place, most are poorly clothed and equipped and are in unorganised and sometimes unsafe campsites (all illegal on private land) miles from any were with big fire pits, trees hacked to an inch of there lives, rubbish everywhere and in the middle of the carnage is a copy of one of Rays books and a axe or machete.

Rays books and TV programs have encouraged many to spend more time in the outdoors which is great but I also believe that it has encouraged some to take risks that they would not have otherwise taken.

 

[Great Pebble]

I can't say that Ray Mears really influenced me in any way, I like his books and his TV shows are fun and occasionally informative but that's about it.

If anyone imitially influenced me to see the outdoors as being a fun place to be it was somebody in a cowboy film or whoever played Robinson Crusoe in that dubbed series that used to be on on Saturday mornings, right before "The Flashing Blade".... The one that had that theme music that evrybody remembers for some reason.. And brings up in pubs when you're talking about when you were a lad... Or is that just me?

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Radisson et Degroseillier, LaVerendrye, Sacajawea, Tiendenega, Goyatla were among my first exposure to the great adventure.
just a thought

 

[bambodoggy]

Bambodoggy sorry I did not make myself that clear, yes, the mistakes I have learnt at some point but I learnt them in a fairly controlled environment of one night sleep outs in local woods. Now most weekends I go up on the downs and I see people camping out all over the place, most are poorly clothed and equipped and are in unorganised and sometimes unsafe campsites (all illegal on private land) miles from any were with big fire pits, trees hacked to an inch of there lives, rubbish everywhere and in the middle of the carnage is a copy of one of Rays books and a axe or machete.

Rays books and TV programs have encouraged many to spend more time in the outdoors which is great but I also believe that it has encouraged some to take risks that they would not have otherwise taken.

Fair enough mate....can't argue with that. I've made that mistake myself...took a couple of my mates down to Wales to run round the beacons with me and my doggy....I didn't realise they started drinking in the car on the way down (I was driving) and by the time we got there they'd done a bottle and half of vodka and moved onto the beer....they are usually nice guys (hence they're mates) but they spent the whole weekend drunk and I spent the weekend picking up litter after them and stopping them from hacking stuff down.....I was quite P'd off by Sunday pm. I started to lead them up the side of the ridge of Pen-Y-Fan on the Saturday morning but after an hour it was clear to me that they were too hung over and wouldn't make the top...we went back down and ended up in the Red Cow for the afternoon........I could have sat in a pub at home!!! But I learned from it...they had a great time and keep asking when we're going again....I'm going at the end of Feb but I somehow get the feeling I'll forget to let them know!!!
It is a pity that the moronic bunch ruin it for the rest of us. No wonder landowners are funny about letting us use their land.
I'm not a great one for grassing on people, I believe in live and let live but if I saw what you do on a regular basis the Old Bill would be on permanant redial on my phone!!!!

 

[jakunen]

Bambodoggy,

It's always that way. The few inconsiderate, selfish individuals alwalys spoil it for the better behaved masses.

Fishing is one prime example. A few lazy idiots leave beer cans and fag packet and bits of waste line around and play radio 1 at 400w at 2am and suddenly all us fishermen are anitsocial inconsiderate litter louts.

A few football supporters get out of hand abroad and all England supporters are hooligans.

Its a sad fact of life that the respect and trust and acceptance that most of us strive years to engender can be destroyed overnight by a few thoughtless people only interested in their own gratification.

Ok, I'll get off the persil now...

 

[Gary]

WE ARE ALL AMBASSIDORS FOR 'THE CRAFT'!

If we always conduct ourself with the utmost respect for the laws of the land, the rights of the owner of the land and most importantly the rights of all nature to exist - if we take only pictures and leave only footprint - if we make the effort to clean up the mess others leave - we can in some small way (at least) hopefully repair some of the damage the selfish thoughtless litter dropping masses do.

I agree with Adi in some respects - the popularisation of the craft by media aka Mr Mears has introduced it to many people who might not have come across it before, and I agree of those who go from the armchair to trying it many blunder about doing some damage but these soon fall by the wayside leaving those who are willing to learn, to take the time and gather the experience to enjoy a whole new world that modern life would possibly have denied them.

This said the problem in UK is lack of space to experience the pleasures of the craft - and this is a problem which will only get worse instead of better.

But as I say as ambassadors for the craft each of us in our own way can do some little good.

 

[jakunen]

Ever thought of standing for parliament mate?

:You_Rock_ :biggthump :ekt: :claping:

 

[tomtom]

I would vote for you ):

 

[Danzo]

I've got a reprinted paperback copy of the 1911 American Boy Scouts handbook somewhere. They must have been robust lads back then as it is as thick as a legal textbook!

:shock:

Anyway it has lots of contributions from fellas like ThompsonSeton and Carter Beard and is chock full of what we call bushcraft today, although they called it woodcraft and campcraft.

If anyone wants a look I'll see if I can find it.

Danzo

 

[Stuart]

I think we may have strayed off subject? :?:

 

[Danzo]

I think we may have strayed off subject? :?:

I thought I was quite on topic..........unlike over at BB!

):

Danzo

 

[Stuart]

sorry I wrote my post before you had posted yours :shock: .

you are on subject, lets hope we can stay on it.

 

[tenbears10]

I think everyone has different influences for getting involved in this bushcraft lark. It can depend on your age, some of the younger people into bushcraft today were influenced by Ray Mears as he was popular however the older members of the forum were out practicing long before Ray was out of nappies.

For me influences include my Dad who took us camping as a whole family (not exactly bushcraft but not caravaning either) and The Scouts who were allowed to wild camp and carry knives in those days along with any book I could get my hands on. Lofty's SAS Survival Handbook was an early influence but I will (hopefully) never need the chapter on Nuclear War.

Ray was the first book I read to concentrate on bushcraft rather than survival but that is just because I hadn't found Mors Kochanski at the time. So it differs for each person as to who was first to introduce the concept of bushcraft.

Bill

 

[bombadil]

If you've never read it, there is a wonderful story in his book "Travels in Alaska": An Adventure with a Dog and a Glacier, that really shows you what kind of character he was. Truly an amazing story!! That whole Alaskan trip was pretty amazing.


And speaking of minimalists, it reminds me of the opening story in Rutstrum's New Way of the Wilderness about Lillian Alling. Here's a link to the story for those who are unfamiliar with it. There is a book available on the story as well but I haven't read it. A google search on Lillian Alling will turn up quite a bit of info.

Lillian Alling

That would be when he took Stickeen out onto the glacier... ): ):
Yep, quite an amazing story. Thanks for the link, that's quite and awesome story too.....it would be fantastic to think that she made it all the way to siberia :ekt:

 

[falling rain]

Bambodoggy sorry I did not make myself that clear, yes, the mistakes I have learnt at some point but I learnt them in a fairly controlled environment of one night sleep outs in local woods. Now most weekends I go up on the downs and I see people camping out all over the place, most are poorly clothed and equipped and are in unorganised and sometimes unsafe campsites (all illegal on private land) miles from any were with big fire pits, trees hacked to an inch of there lives, rubbish everywhere and in the middle of the carnage is a copy of one of Rays books and a axe or machete.

Rays books and TV programs have encouraged many to spend more time in the outdoors which is great but I also believe that it has encouraged some to take risks that they would not have otherwise taken.

We're all adults and those who are not should be guided by their parents. We should all have the common sense to take what we need for a comfortable trip and some extra clothes if things get wet/cold etc and never beleive our skills are greater than they really are. If people have taken risks then I would say that is down to themselves and wasn't encouraged by Ray Mears. Gary has mentioned it before that Humility is a great attribute. And that is absolutely my opinion too. We cannot blame Ray Mears for all the ignorance of people out camping and any destruction they may cause. It is OUR responsibility to leave the wilds as we find them and RM mentions this several times in several of his programmes but there will always be the odd lazy blighter who can't be bothered to leave no trace of his fire. That's humans. As for 'What Before Ray Mears' ? He has certainly brought to the publics attention the old ways again in recent years and nobody can deny that. I personally give him the credit for my addiction and sparking my interest for Bushcraft when I first saw his programmes. I've always loved the outdoors but specifically Bushcraft is down to him.
Something I've always wondered is where did using Crampball for fire lighting come from. The first reference I know is from Mr Mears but where did he get the info from, or did he re-discover it himself ? Anyone seen it in any older texts ? :?:

 

[bambodoggy]

Must be an old English thing as Ray mentions in his books that he's only ever seen them in the Thai tropical rainforests and one other rain forest that escapes me now....

Wups...bit

 

[jakunen]

I've not managed to track back how far Crampball as a coal goes but it must go back to the time of the Doctrine of something-or-other, (sorry brains gone phut), where they believed a plant told you what it was good.

For example as Lungwort leaves look like an infected lung so was used for lung disorders, the roots of Pilewort resemble - I'll let you work out what that is good for yourself, so it seems logical that as Daldinia concentrica looks like a charred piece of wood...

 

[Ed]

Something I've always wondered is where did using Crampball for fire lighting come from. The first reference I know is from Mr Mears but where did he get the info from, or did he re-discover it himself ? Anyone seen it in any older texts ?

Well my grandmother taught me about them when I was about 5 years old.... she in turn was taught be her mother and grandmother so its been quite common knowledge with country folk for over 100 years (and probably stems back even further)..... Not sure when the first text referance of it is though.... I'll have a look.

Remember the use of these have been around for a very long time. It was even thought they could be used to cure cramp if you put one under your armpit.... hence the common name.

Ed