Waste of money or Worth every penny

[Alchemist]

Merry XMas.
With it being the season of empty wallets and this being my year of empty wallet I have been thinking about what gifts or buys were worth it in the end. I am not a hugely experienced woodsman but I have learnt a few lessons in my short life.

Worth every penny

SAKs, Opinels- Of course
Mora- Of course
EKA super swede and swede 88- Treat em mean keep em keen
Army lightweight trousers- simple, tough, good fabric. If you want more I would have to ask why.
Greys Apollo fishing smock- Thick cotton twill, 25 quid, tough mother lover, great in the garden, must get the wife to sew in a draw cord.
Japanese combi waterstone, waterstone holder, leather strop from axminster tools- beauties. I have cut the handle off of the strop so that it fits into the holder. Lovely edges from this treatment.
Diamond stones- 3 flat diamond stones from a local small tool shop. Bargain at 9 pound and 40.
Fallkniven DC3- for any knife.

Waste of money

EKA W11- The knife is really nice but I definately wasted money here. If Ray Mears has done one thing to mislead people it is that you need a full tang and a scandi grind. You dont have to. I thought that the lack of a full tang factory made scandi must be a crime, but it isnt. Buy a good folder cos it goes everywhere with you. Then a mora cos it is cheap and effective. Then when you KNOW what you want, save up. I am not saying that it is RMs fault but a lot of people have read his books and got the wrong end of the stick, and, like me, wasted money.

This pair of Craghoppers trousers- beware of these big companies. If these companies marketed their products truthfully these would come under 'slow drying, cold yet sweaty, nasty feeling with too many pockets that make them bulky'. I did once have an expensive and excellent pair of trousers from http://www.trango.com/ but my bum grew and now I dont think they make them.

Undecided

Fallkniven F1- A really good knife. But at the moment I dont really need it if I am honest. In the future though, I expect to use it more. So I need to ensure a return on investment.

There you go, just some ideas.
Would like to see what others have to say.
But I am trying to get people to ask the question- do I really need it.

 

[moduser]

Worth every penny

Swedish Army, stainless Trangia - cheap and can be used over a fire as well
Swedish Army LK35 - cheap, well made and a black hole of a rucksack
Mora Clipper- nuff said
Group buy hammock system - so comfy


Waste of Money

Fortunately very little and if I learn from a bad buying experience that is worth every penny

Undecided

Nanok -10 - still think it's too big for me but I'll put up with it a while or end up modifying it.

David

 

[leon-b]

worth it :
swedish army trangia - very cheap, can be used over a fire and built like a tank
lk 35 rucksack - again cheap and very strong
clipper - its a hell of a knife for the money

leon

 

[big_swede]

so worth it (in addition to what have been said before):

• Mountain equipment thermal jackets Namely the lightline, anapurna and loft (that sleeka copy) jackets.
• Helle knifes Damn good knifes.
• LK70 yeah yeah, I should stop yapping about it, but it is a really good buy.
• SAF reinforcement parka and pants Really nice and toasty, flame resistant (compared to down or synthetic filling jackets), doubles as a summer sleeping 'bag'.
• Fjällräven pants Their jackets leave more to wish, but the pants are good value. Specially Domines.
• black diamond space shot 2 worth every penny, and superior to petzl (IMO)
• Coleman stoves Real good value multifuel stoves (not really for bushcraft, more for expeditions)
• Trangia pans compared with the prices for msr pans, or optimus pans, it's a good buy. I drilled two holes in each pan, on opposite sides, and then used a bent bicycle spoke as a hanger for open fires. The frying pan lid won't work so good when used that way though.

not so worth it:

• Meindl boots Usual low quality gore-tex problems. The cuts are cheap, the designs ill thought through and so on. Shame on them!
• Magnum Boots Bah! :aargh4: Just can't stand them! Wears out after a couple of kilometers, useless in terrain. Not really built for this, I know, but anyway, they perform worse than my adidas trainers.
• Anything from tierra You probably haven't used their stuff, and you're just as good without. Ye be warned.
• Anything from haglöfs A brand that has gone bad. Or rather trendy. Those two are intimately connected I guess. Only seen it in a couple of english web stores.

All I can come up with now. Got really angry thinking about my meindls so I couldn't concentrate.

 

[spamel]

If you are after cold weather gear, Swedish army kit is tried and tested and worth every penny.

Cold weather mittens with the woolen inners from the US army are also a good bit of kit, very warm and they have a leather palm so they are hard wearing. Cheap too.

I've not really bought much naff kit, although I have been issued plenty of crap kit. Steer clear of pretty much all of the present issue clothing, the old lightweights and HD Jumpers were great but the 95 kit is pants. The basha is OK but there are plenty of other bashas on the market that are just as good and not in Rambo DPM. The older poncho is better.

PLCE bergen is good, but you will end up with a sweaty back which is where the external frame bags come into their own. LK 35 is great for the warmer months when you don't have to carry bulky warm gear, the LK 70 I am still trying to source, but it seems to have masses of space. Definitely use a canoe sack from Ortlieb to keep your kit dry though (Another top buy).

 

[addyb]

Worth every penny:

- US Army jungle boots. The best hot weather boots out there. Period.

-Ventile. There's just nothing like it. IMHO, a Ventile garment comes the closest to being the "perfect" piece of kit.

Waste of Money:

-Gore-Tex boots. 'nuff said!

-Cannister stoves. Why? Once the cannister starts to become empty, the tank pressure drops and your meal just don't cook like it used to. Also, they contribute to a HUGE amount of garbage on the world's most famous peaks. Everest and K2 come to mind as I write this.

Undecided:

-Opinels. Love the look, feel, and blade of the knives but hate the wooden handle and lock that just doesn't satisfy me.

My two cents!

Adam

 

[Dunelm]

[*]Anything from haglöfs A brand that has gone bad. Or rather trendy. Those two are intimately connected I guess. Only seen it in a couple of english web stores.
[/list]

Worth It

Haglofs Hunter Rucksack. 35 Lt. Olive Green. Had it about 6 years now. They no longer do this range. But I agree, some of their newer mountain ranges are very trendy...
Snugpak Airpak jacket. Very light, Very Warm. Reversible.
Katz moleskin trousers.
Cotton Shemagh scarf. Cheap and very useful.

Not Worth It

Light My Fire Maya Dust...nice tin.

 

[Alchemist]

http://www.trangoworld.com/ingles/html/catalogo/prenda.asp?producto=343&divs=1

I think these are the trousers I used to love before my **** expanded.
Simple design, and made of ... cotton. Amazing!

Cant see a price but have a bad feeling they are pricey

 

[British Red]

Great and useful thread!

My views

Worth It
Ventile Smock from Sasskit - pricey but good
5.11 Shirts - gotta love em
Wetterlings axes - not as well finished as Granny Bs but a lot cheaper
Trangias - any and all (especially non stick pans)
Sabre 45 and side pockets
Singtecks leather work :You_Rock_
Sealskins gloves
Petzl Myo LED headlight (uses AAs)
Snugpack Sleeka Jacket
Nesting set of Nanok SF bags (0 degrees and an inner of -10)
Magikelly Hammocks
Real 550 Paracord

Not Worth it
Marbles axes
Falkniven F1 (hate it - the grind is rubbish, the handle uncomfortable the blade too thick)
Blastmatch
Matchcases - why bother?
Windmill stormproof lighters (they break - a lot)

Red

 

[TheGreenMan]

Hello Alchemist,

...With it being the season of empty wallets ...

Amen to that

Waste of money

...If Ray Mears has done one thing to mislead people it is that you need a full tang and a scandi grind...

I don’ recall RM recommending anything of the sort

Undecided

Fallkniven F1- A really good knife. But at the moment I dont really need it if I am honest. In the future though, I expect to use it more. So I need to ensure a return on investment.

It’s a very useful knife (ignore Red), but if you need to whittle a lot you should have bought the S1, the larger arcs of the convex grind make it much easier to shave feather sticks etc.

Interesting post, Alchemist, thank you, and seasons greetings

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[TheGreenMan]

.
[*]Helle knifes Damn good knifes.

Much underated, but they need a flatten the spines to spark with a firesteel.

.
[*]LK70 yeah yeah, I should stop yapping about it, but it is a really good buy.

Still waiting for that review, BS

.
[*]SAF reinforcement parka and pants Really nice and toasty, flame resistant (compared to down or synthetic filling jackets), doubles as a summer sleeping 'bag'.

I'll be PM'ing you in the new year for more info and a source of supply

Best regards and season greetings,
Paul.

 

[TheGreenMan]

...Not Worth it...Falkniven F1 (hate it - the grind is rubbish, the handle uncomfortable the blade too thick)...Red

Back on the old hobby horse, then, Red

You know you really should get an S1

Best regards,
Paul.

PS: total respect for your mention of singteck's leather work

 

[British Red]

Just my view, I would encourage people to try one before they buy (as I would with all kit to be honest).

I heard nothing but praise for the knife and and so bought one but I really, really don't like it one bit. I find the point too round for boring, the spine to thick and the roundness of the convex grind sloppy and imprecise compared to a scandy or full flat. Others love theirs. If I can talk Leon-1 into re-grinding and re-handling mine I may try it again, or I may just bin it. I don't feel happy selling it I dislike it that much. I'm delighted other people feel differently. Its kind of like David not being sure about his Nanok. I think mine are the dogs doodahs, but I repect Davids opinion and its useful to know that they don't work for everyone - I'll be careful to tell people that when suggesting one. Thats the beauty of threads like this - a variety of opinions.

Red

 

[TheGreenMan]

Just my view, I would encourage people to try one before they buy (as I would with all kit to be honest).

I heard nothing but praise for the knife and and so bought one but I really, really don't like it one bit. I find the point too round for boring, the spine to thick and the roundness of the convex grind sloppy and imprecise compared to a scandy or full flat. Others love theirs. If I can talk Leon-1 into re-grinding and re-handling mine I may try it again, or I may just bin it. I don't feel happy selling it I dislike it that much. I'm delighted other people feel differently. Its kind of like David not being sure about his Nanok. I think mine are the dogs doodahs, but I repect Davids opinion and its useful to know that they don't work for everyone - I'll be careful to tell people that when suggesting one. Thats the beauty of threads like this - a variety of opinions.

Red

If you can get someone to ‘pimp’ the F1 I’d be very happy for you, Red. Don’t take my comments too seriously, it’s just that I’m getting into that playful Crimbo spirit.

On a serious note, if you can’t get it pimped, don’t bin it, send it to me, and I’ll find it a good home

Merry Crimbo, Red,
Paul.

 

[big_swede]

I'll be PM'ing you in the new year for more info and a source of supply

Best regards and season greetings,
Paul.

I'll be back from expedition around the 12 th.

All the best and god jul! (goes to everybody here)

 

[fred gordon]

Great thread. Might save me lots of cash, and mistakes.

Worth it:
Sabre 45 ruchsack with side pockets
Paramo clothing (silent and reproofable)
Swanndri Ranger shirt
Buffalo Mountain jacket
Gransfor axe
Trangia stove + pans especially the kettle (wife likes lots of brews!)
12cm Zebra billycan
Pyranah Canadian canoe
Sigg bottle full of malt whisky

Waste of money:
Gore-tex lined boots
ordinary matches
Prepared meals in a bag (I like camp cooking!)

 

[TheGreenMan]

I'll be back from expedition around the 12 th.

All the best and god jul! (goes to everybody here)

Cool, as they say these days.

If you're going to be away in the next few days, get someone to look out for the parcel on it's way to you by air mail

Have a good expo, and stay safe!

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[pierre girard]

If you are after cold weather gear, Swedish army kit is tried and tested and worth every penny.

Cold weather mittens with the woolen inners from the US army are also a good bit of kit, very warm and they have a leather palm so they are hard wearing. Cheap too.

.

I'll second the cold weather US Army shooting mitts, and the extreme cold weather US Army mitts (no index finger) are even better for cold weather (superior to the Canadian Army mitts), while with boots, the Canadian Extreme cold weather mukluk is superior.

East German surplus wool pants, with the cargo pockets, are excellent. I agree with the dry bags. I have the Ortlieb and also Granite Gear, with are very good as well.

Duluth pack, if you can get them cheap enough, are great for canoeing, and last for generations. I just picked up two #3 packs at an antique store that was going out of business - for $25 total for both of them.

 

[Alchemist]

I should apologise if any body has mis understood my views about RMs advice. I merely want to say that RM suggests the benefits of a full tang, fixed blade with a scandi. People, like me, have taken it as almost gospel that this is essential to practice bushcraft. It is of course not essential, and this mistake on the part of the novice has cost them money.

Far be it from me to criticise a man who has opened my eyes to the wide world of bushcraft.

Just twigged. Was that sarcasm Green Man?

 

[TheGreenMan]

I should apologise if any body has mis understood my views about RMs advice. I merely want to say that RM suggests the benefits of a full tang, fixed blade with a scandi. People, like me, have taken it as almost gospel that this is essential to practice bushcraft. It is of course not essential, and this mistake on the part of the novice has cost them money.

Far be it from me to criticise a man who has opened my eyes to the wide world of bushcraft.

Just twigged. Was that sarcasm Green Man?

It was a serious comment, but made in a jocular mood

I really don’t recall RM saying that anyone must have a full tang, spearpoint, with a Nordic grind (least of all one of his ), as far as I remember, he just expresses what his own preferences are.

The kit situation can be a bit of a financial mine field when new to the bushcraft scene, Al (just ask anyone who carries around a tobacco tin at all times full of fishing line and rabbit snares - that kind of c*ap really is a waste of money).

But, that said, if one did buy a Woodlore knife, it wouldn’t have been a waste of money entirely, as it is a bloody good knife, and unless you get into the whole knife collecting thing, one probably would not need to buy another knife, ever.

But there again, a Mora is less expensive <chuckle>

Best regards,
Paul.