Voluntarily handing in a large blade to the UK police

[spokenword]

I found a flow chart which shows how to work out legality, let me find the link

Bottom of this page

2024 Machete & ‘Zombie Knife’ Ban | Knifewarehouse

2024 Zombie Knife Ban Updates and Surrender Options with compensation available.

www.knifewarehouse.co.uk

Thanks. That's the bit I forgot to look at until today.

Please, everyone, if this is too drawn out for you, just skip it and read another thread. I know it's dragging on You don't have to read any of this.

Now for the weird but positive development: I visited the Police Station again this afternoon, whereupon the clerk at the desk rolled her eyes as she explained my earlier visit to a uniformed officer. I now presented various arguments, along with visible proof of the previous UK definition of what constituted an illegal weapon, which was a secondary argument they were trying to fall back on. Nothing to do with the zombie surrender scheme.

After another 20 mins of that officer checking things, the female clerk returned rather sheepishly and said, "Well, as it is, we can't find any reason to not return the knife to you". She appeared devastated at the fact that such a large and menacing blade could still be legal. Only that morning said that she'd phoned everyone - including the Home Office department that's supposed to advise police staff - even shown it to an officer who instantly declared it as a banned item for anyone to own.

Yes, I too was wrong and missed the bit about 'over' 8 inch blade length, when I'd assumed it was 8 inches period. But... they were completely and utterly 100% wrong themselves, but are supposed to be the ones administering this new law. If even they don't know, God help us.

I left, with with her looking crestfallen, shaking her head in disbelief and calling the surrender scheme ridiculous for allowing my type of blade to be legal.

They will apparently call me over the next few days as the storeroom is now locked and she's off for a few days. Also said they might hand deliver it to my address, as they don't want it carried anywhere. Think I'll pop in again tomorrow though, just in case they say it got destroyed on the 24th (end of surrender scheme).

By the way, told her the knife was used for bird watching. I enjoyed her reaction to that.

Will post again when/if I get it back.

 

[spokenword]

It probably isn't worth the effort. But, from my limited understanding the 2019 amendment would only apply if you knife had violent words on it. The law says serrated edge and images or words.

(i)a cutting edge;
(ii)a serrated edge; and
(iii)images or words (whether on the blade or handle) that suggest that it is to be used for the purpose of violence.”

Did you get a receipt for the knife? If you have the time and energy it could be worth chasing it up and raising a complaint if you are sure the knife is legal. If you're a member of certain organisations they could help, BASC for example are providing advice to members.

Thanks mate. See my latest reply to the thread.

 

[demographic]

I keep garden pruners in my jacket pocket. Little by little you can work wonders on a snarled path

That ^ exactly.
I've been walking along an area with the dog for over a year using secateurs (and on the odd occasions a pruning saw) to clear an old path.
The parts I've cleared only amount to about 250 metres as not all of the path was badly overgrown but it was dense stuff.
Little by little (helps to have a bin to put the pruned bits into and get them out the way) it's surprising the progress you can make.

 

[Falstaff]

Well done Spokenword, please don't let go. It is the ignorant prejudice of opinated people like that receptionist, " I don't like it, it must therefore be bad and should be banned". As a receptionist it is not her role to go searching for someone to back up her prejudice.

Many people are prejudiced simply because it is something outside of their knowledge or experience, I get this a lot with riding motorbikes "they're dangerous, noisy etc" "ban them" arguably therefore horseriding should also be banned since it has a high serious injury rate. ( I happen to enjoy riding horses also but don't get to do so very often.)

 

[DB-71]

How sad, what a waste, Im sure the streets will be safer tonight with that knife in police hands which was kept in a drawer without issue for donkeys years by a responsible owner.....NOT!

 

[spokenword]

Well done Spokenword, please don't let go. It is the ignorant prejudice of opinated people like that receptionist, " I don't like it, it must therefore be bad and should be banned". As a receptionist it is not her role to go searching for someone to back up her prejudice.

Many people are prejudiced simply because it is something outside of their knowledge or experience, I get this a lot with riding motorbikes "they're dangerous, noisy etc" "ban them" arguably therefore horseriding should also be banned since it has a high serious injury rate. ( I happen to enjoy riding horses also but don't get to do so very often.)

Agreed. This current ban seems to be about image and appearance. What about daggers, designed with the single purpose of ending a life? Are they still legal? If so, that in itself is nuts.

Horses scare me.

 

[TeeDee]

Agreed. This current ban seems to be about image and appearance. What about daggers, designed with the single purpose of ending a life? Are they still legal? If so, that in itself is nuts.

Horses scare me.

Horses with daggers pose no possible threat.
The lack of an opposable thumb makes them nearly ( but never completely...) harmless.

 

[hughtrimble]

Agreed. This current ban seems to be about image and appearance. What about daggers, designed with the single purpose of ending a life? Are they still legal? If so, that in itself is nuts.

Horses scare me.

I commissioned a feasting dagger from a cracking maker called Bones - the single purpose of it was to extend life, by feeding me.

 

[sidpost]

First, TLDR all of this thread. Knives like that were popular a long time ago but, weren't really practical to the vast majority of people that bought them. Even if given one, I'm not sure what I would do with it personally as I have much better tools for the jobs it could do (meaning legal uses). I actually use a machete most for general farm clearing of random weeds and vines around my property. I never once thought a sawback on the blade would be remotely useful.

As an American, we had a similar 'feel good' ban on "ASSAULT RIFLES". The main problem was that the people passing the laws didn't understand what they were legislating against so, they went after COSMETIC features.

Turns out, the streets weren't any safer and you could argue became more dangerous because people with no desire to own a handgun or rifle went out and bought one before they were banned as well.

Ultimately, 'assault rifles' at the time were used very little in the commission of crime generally. After the law, that was all criminals focused on.

UK knife crime and deaths are essentially analogous to criminal gun deaths in the USA. I really don't care if a mentally stable person next door or a mile down the road has a rifle, handgun, or big knife as they pose no threat to me or those around them or anyone else.

I understand it isn't politically realistic to blame mentally unstable people or outright criminals from possessing such things but, if you don't solve the cause of the problem and only address superficial symptoms, the problem never goes away.

The classic example of what is fundamentally wrong systemically in the USA is the following:

1. 1) A ~14 year old boy was questioned at home with his parents about social media posts and drawings indicating he was going to "shoot up the school and kill a bunch of people" along with research of past school shootings.
2. 2) Dad said all the guns in the house were safely stored and the kid did not have access to them.
3. 3) Dad and son both told the police it was just a bad joke that went wrong.
4. 4) Dad bought his son an AR-15 and gave it to him for his birthday (illegal due to his age at the time).
5. 5) Son takes the rifle given to him as a birthday present and kills several people at his Junior High School.

Now Mom and Dad are on trial for the killings in addition to the son. Gross negligence and putting weapons in the hands of known mentally unstable people will never end well. Taking those same items out of the hands of peaceful law-abiding citizens will never fix the problem.

Knife deaths in the UK are a real problem at a level we don't see in the USA. Taking pocket knives, kitchen knives, utility knives, etc. out of the hands of ordinary everyday UK citizens does nothing to prevent a mentally unstable person from buying a Chef's knife and slashing people. Making an average UK citizen living an ordinary life afraid of the knife they have in a toolbox or kitchen drawer also does not make the UK safer and really takes the focus on safety away from the real threat.

 

[Broch]

TLDR

 

[spokenword]

Well written Sidpost. There's hardly anything others have written that I disagree with, including your post. The whole thing was too rushed. They should've consulted actual knife owners/users on this matter.

Yes, the BMF saw back is ridiculous, but the blade had the heft I required at the time, along with the hammer end. Decided to take a much lighter blade abroad. Remembered a goat herder hassling me to sell it to him. One of those old style sheath knives, with a handle made of multiple concentric leather bands.

I really want to know if a dagger with blood draining grooves down the side is actually still legal in the UK. Odd if it were, when the zombie is not.

In and around London there are so many damaged and combative people. Can't comment on why or what the cure is. They'll always find a blade if needed. Same goes for gang members. The solution would be for supermarkets to sell only pre cut food and for the government to ban all kitchen knives

 

[C_Claycomb]

No discussion on disarmament would be complete without....

 

[Broch]

Knife deaths in the UK are a real problem at a level we don't see in the USA. Taking pocket knives, kitchen knives, utility knives, etc. out of the hands of ordinary everyday UK citizens does nothing to prevent a mentally unstable person from buying a Chef's knife and slashing people. Making an average UK citizen living an ordinary life afraid of the knife they have in a toolbox or kitchen drawer also does not make the UK safer and really takes the focus on safety away from the real threat.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Knife deaths per annum per million population in US is 4.7
Knife deaths per annum per million population in UK is 3.6

 

[Stew]

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Knife deaths per annum per million population in US is 4.7
Knife deaths per annum per million population in UK is 3.6

I guess that the quantity of gun issues just desensitises the knife deaths!

 

[Pattree]

A flick knife is a very useful tool for rope and twine work. Once a flick knife or a butterfly knife are open, they are no different from any other knife. I can’t imagine that anyone is prepared to suggest a repeal.

A major part of a (quasi?) democracy, based upon majority rule by popular vote, is image.
Unless you can think of a better system, then we are stuck with the politics of headline and the sound bite. It’s currently our only defence against the despot.
Calm rationality rarely wins votes. Knives are emotive. That’s good for votes.
Long term education, social development and poverty eradication are hard work and very boring.

 

[Chris]

I wish people here were as passionate about protecting the rights of their neighbour (as well as the responsibilities which come with said rights), as they are about just spitefully wanting to ban things they don’t personally like/understand.

 

[Broch]

I guess that the quantity of gun issues just desensitises the knife deaths!

Yep:

US - 135/million
UK - 0.43/million

 

[sidpost]

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Knife deaths per annum per million population in US is 4.7
Knife deaths per annum per million population in UK is 3.6

I haven't been around any knife deaths in the USA. Sure, the USA has some stabbings but, they rarely make the news, normally are between people known to each other, and often are gang-related and in a gangland area, not public parks or schools for example. The UK on the other hand makes the news for various knife attacks against people that have no reason to be attacked like school children and festival attendees.

The only thing similar that comes to mind in the USA and UK are things like Hells Angels and related motorcycle gangs in bar knife fights versus people in the UK in pub brawls gone wrong with a knifing.

 

[sidpost]

I guess that the quantity of gun issues just desensitises the knife deaths!

Gun deaths are a lot more likely between unknown persons during an act of crime. A knife attack generally is pretty rare during a common crime.

 

[Broch]

I haven't been around any knife deaths in the USA. Sure, the USA has some stabbings but, they rarely make the news, normally are between people known to each other, and often are gang-related and in a gangland area, not public parks or schools for example. The UK on the other hand makes the news for various knife attacks against people that have no reason to be attacked like school children and festival attendees.

The only thing similar that comes to mind in the USA and UK are things like Hells Angels and related motorcycle gangs in bar knife fights versus people in the UK in pub brawls gone wrong with a knifing.

No, UK knife crime is generally youth gang-related - you only get to see the sensational and relatively rare innocent stabbings.