Vegan advice

[Broch]

You have a morality of a Buddhist!
Nothing wrong in that.

But if you see the killing of an animal ‘murder’ then we that eat meat and offal are ‘murderers’ ?

Research has shown that plants react to outside stimulus. I have read reports that show that trees show changes if a tree nearby is damaged.
Sentient?

I think that deserves a different thread Janne

 

[Prophecy]

Oh yes I missed that one. Plants don't feel pain. Simple as that. They respond to external stimuli. Cows feel pain. They feel emotions like we do. Look at videos of how mothers react when their calves are stolen from them. It's heartbreaking to watch.

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[Broch]

I suppose morality in terms of being a vegan is only one aspect of morality. But there are millions of vegans out there and it's on the rise. I'm sure there's more on this board.

The thing is, I think the vast majority of us are good people. I think you are probably a really moral person, but you've just never really thought about the other side of the coin. I remember thinking vegans were total weirdos and I would be really defensive about eating meat if challenged. I have been through all of the arguments I realise now that I was dealing with new ideas that were conflicting with everything I had ever been made to believe. It's easier just to shut them out. Cognitive dissonance.

But it's easy. We have two choices. Eat meat which is filled with violence, pain, suffering, enslavement and murder/killing, and with that comes the increased risk of heart disease and cancers etc.

The other choice is simply don't eat meat. People think it's so radical and so difficult to do but it's literally as easy as googling stuff, and moving your hand over to the soy milk in the supermarket rather than the cow milk. It's the loving alternative, and it can be cheaper and healthier. The food is amazing.

I don't blame non-vegans at all for not getting it. We've been programmed to be 'specieist' (ie we'd never kill a dog but chickens are fine) since a young age. There is an utterly fantastic, short video by Melanie Joy that I've linked below that I would urge anyone and everyone to watch. It's essentially the science behind why we do eat cows but we care for our dogs.

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Oh I've thought about it long and hard. I believe, not out of ignorance or lack of thinking but quite the contrary, that meat is a normal part of the Homo sapiens diet; I respect people that do not want to eat meat, that is a choice. I would never try to persuade them they are wrong so I appreciate it when vegetarians/vegans don't try to persuade me that I am wrong or call me immoral. When was the last time most vegans killed a wasp or a fly?

I will only kill if I intend to eat the 'prey' or if me or mine are in mortal danger. I don't believe I could be a vegetarian let alone a vegan but I love cooking vegetarian for those guests that want it and I enjoy eating it. But, to do without roast venison, calamari, slow cooked leg of lamb, beach grilled mackerel ..... nah, never!

 

[Prophecy]

Oh I've thought about it long and hard. I believe, not out of ignorance or lack of thinking but quite the contrary, that meat is a normal part of the Homo sapiens diet; I respect people that do not want to eat meat, that is a choice. I would never try to persuade them they are wrong so I appreciate it when vegetarians/vegans don't try to persuade me that I am wrong or call me immoral. When was the last time most vegans killed a wasp or a fly?

I will only kill if I intend to eat the 'prey' or if me or mine are in mortal danger. I don't believe I could be a vegetarian let alone a vegan but I love cooking vegetarian for those guests that want it and I enjoy eating it. But, to do without roast venison, calamari, slow cooked leg of lamb, beach grilled mackerel ..... nah, never!

Perhaps it *was* a normal part of the human diet. But should we base our morals on what was once normal? That's a very slippery slope! We have a choice. We don't need it to be healthy and to thrive. It's really as simple as that!

If someone is vegan for animal cruelty reasons then they wouldn't kill any critters.

The reason why vegans are so passionate is because there's a victim which can't speak and they see it as their rightful duty to try to at least spread awareness. Not because they want to show people that they're better than them. You may well be a better person than they are in other aspects of life.

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[Janne]

Shall we start a new thread?

I like our civilized discussion.

 

[Prophecy]

Shall we start a new thread?

I like our civilized discussion.

Yeh, sure! If it's not too late!

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[Janne]

Never to late! To late is when the esteemed Mods get upset!

I wonder if the OP tried any of the suggestions?

 

[Prophecy]

Never to late! To late is when the esteemed Mods get upset!

I wonder if the OP tried any of the suggestions?

OP can probably get a vegan mayo at the nearest big supermarket!

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[Janne]

Yes, but how did his offspring like the rest?
I am not sure for example if the flavour of hummus would agree with a toddler!

There is an Vegan mayo which is fantastic. Just Mayo it is called.
I can not taste any difference between trad mayos and that vegan one.
Not sure if you can buy it in UK though.

 

[Tengu]

`Morality of a Buddhist`? Oh! dont go there...

In this country we treat animals better than we do people.

 

[Janne]

I mean it in a positive way. As in that they do not hurt or kill animals.
Not wanting to venture into the religion swamp though...

I promise you I treat people better than animals, at least those animals I kill/ murder.

 

[Prophecy]

`Morality of a Buddhist`? Oh! dont go there...

In this country we treat animals better than we do people.

Apart from when we rear and slaughter the hundreds of millions of them per year just because we like the taste of their dead flesh. Yes other than that we're super kind to them.

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[Toddy]

Ehm....other thread, please ?

M

 

[santaman2000]

But other meat if eaten raw comes with serious health risks and even death. We are not built to eat meat raw.

Studies show that growing food for animals uses much more land, energy and water than growing food than that compared to land used for a vegetarian or vegan diet.

Cows eat a hell of a lot.

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I also frequently eat raw oysters, raw fish, and rare pork.

Growing livestock takes more water? We just turned the herds loose in the pasture and let them find the creek or pond. They simply graze and eat a bit of hay up until a few weeks prior to slaughter. At that point they're taken off pasture and "finished" (grain fed to purge grasses out of their system)

Pigs we grew in a similar fasion except there was no hay or "finishing" involved. Just turn them loose in the woods to feed on whatever they find (keep them well fenced in or they'll devastate all other wildlife) and feed them all the table scraps until slaughter.

As for "not killing animals" a vegetarian diet requires an awful lot of killing: rabbits, deer, crows, and any other wildlife that threaten the crops. I remember killing rabbits when I was a kid, dismembering them and spreading their body parts round the edges of the garden to deter others from the crops. Shooting crows off the corn crop was an ever week thing at the minimum.

 

[santaman2000]

Among the offal still commonly eaten today the onlt one I'm really personally fond of is liver (clf's liver or beef liver) As a kid growing up I've eaten hog brains (scrambled in eggs) with Daddy, chitterlings with an Uncle (fried) Giblet gravy (gravy packed with minced bits of the turkey's organs ---- actually I still eat this frequently now that I think of it) fried chicken livers, fried chicken gizzards, and beef tripe (fried)

I liked every one of them at the time but nowadays it's just the beef or calf's liver or the giblet gravy.

 

[santaman2000]

I just saw a vegan recipe that I might have to try myself: substituting cauliflower for Buffalo Wings.

Take the cauliflower florets, dip them in the batter, fry them until golden brown in a vegetable oil, then toss them in the buffalo sauce.

The batter looked simple enough; just a bit of all purpose flour, corn flour, baking powder, and beer. Buffalo sauce to your own liking but the original was equal parts melted butter and Tobasco sauce.

 

[Janne]

Battered and pan fried cauliflower is very central europen.
If you fo the frying in a pan, gently preboil it first.

 

[santaman2000]

Battered and pan fried cauliflower is very central europen.
If you fo the frying in a pan, gently preboil it first.

Actually it wss more of a Japanese thing (think tempura) but when I watched her (Rachael Ray) make them the batter seemed closer to English fish & chips. The Buffalo Sauce is pure Buffalo, N.Y.

You'd need to modify her recipe slightly to make it completely vegan (she uses worcestershire sauce in the buffalo sauce and serves the final dish with bleau cheese)

 

[Janne]

Traditional Jewish receipe. To be more Politically Correct, let us say it is from Levant/ south eastern Meditarrean originally!
Trust me.

Mum used to call it Jewish Cauliflower.
Serve with thinky sliced cucumber in Kefir. Salt. Pepper. Pressed garlic. No mint though, we have zero Greek ancestry!

 

[Janne]

Cauliflower makes some delicious food!