Utility Knives and Multitools – Are they Legal for Camping?

[Mesquite]

A very interesting video from Daniel ShenSmith who runs the BlackBeltBarrister channel.

It's likely to provoke a lot of debate about his take on how you measure the length of a blade.

 

[Mesquite]

He's also got another recent video on EDC legal carry in the UK

 

[Chris]

"Utility Knives and Multitools – Are they Legal for Camping?"​

Yes.

 

[TLM]

"This point here ..." is not a very precise definition for measuring things. Apparently being a black belt or barrister does not help in writing or speaking clearly and in an unambiguous manner.

 

[Broch]

"This point here ..." is not a very precise definition for measuring things. Apparently being a black belt or barrister does not help in writing or speaking clearly and in an unambiguous manner.

Mmm... I thought he was very clear when he place the tape measure on it.

 

[Pattree]

This issue keeps coming up without apparent resolution.

The OP refers specifically to camping.
Of course the multi tools can be used for camping. Some are specifically made for camping.

I shall carry my Opinel #12 to any camp that I choose. It shall be packed and out of sight with my camp kit while I travel. It will be used openly in camp.

The day I can’t openly buy an Opinel#13 in the UK I shall review my stance. *
Right now I can openly buy (and already own) an Opinel #13 which has a 220mm locking blade. I can also openly buy an Opinel #150 (mm) * which I consider far more difficult to justify.

(* I’ve just checked that both items are available today.)
Edited to add:
….. from UK suppliers to UK customers.

 

[Laurentius]

It all comes down to common sense in the end, a little risk assessment as to where you are going as to whether you can justify your tools. Machete and billhook on my allotment and in my car as I drive there and back. Still in my car when I go to the supermarket later? No. SAK I will take anywhere, where it is not specifically forbidden.

 

[hughtrimble]

The definition of a 'blade' and 'cutting edge' have long bothered me. Dismantle it, and not only is the blade longer than what's exposed when it's assembled, but it's also surely now a fixed blade given it's no longer part of a folding knife. But then hasn't the item been modified in the process of disassembly and is thus no longer the item used? Ad nauseam.

I just hope such terms are applied sensibly; if not, hopefully an appeals process will bring sense.

 

[Kadushu]

I'm waiting for Svord Peasant style folders to be declared a fixed blade since the rear part of the blade effectively is a fixed handle. Remove the folding handle and you really are left with a fixed blade, albeit an uncomfortable one to use.

 

[Wildgoose]

Is removing the handle easy or common? A pair of scissors is basically two fixed blades if you take them apart

 

[EdS]

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches (7.6 cm).


It still a grey area about "blade length".

If its not a cutting edge ....

Guess it would depend on the skill of your legal rep

 

[Wildgoose]

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches (7.6 cm).


It still a grey area about "blade length".

If its not a cutting edge ....

Guess it would depend on the skill of your legal rep

In the video he mentions a recent case where the court deemed the length from the handle to be deemed to be the key length,
This could be the case law we were waiting for.
CPS have always held this stance too

 

[Delboy]

In the video he mentions a recent case where the court deemed the length from the handle to be deemed to be the key length,
This could be the case law we were waiting for.
CPS have always held this stance too

Do you have the case law for that ?

 

[Nice65]

I'm waiting for Svord Peasant style folders to be declared a fixed blade since the rear part of the blade effectively is a fixed handle. Remove the folding handle and you really are left with a fixed blade, albeit an uncomfortable one to use.

Same if you took the blade out of any knife really. Technically a SAK blade without the handle to fold into could be called a fixed blade. It’s just inventing scenarios, there’s no point to it, and certainly no point in thinking lawmakers are going to give a Svord Peasant or friction folder much consideration. As it is ‘readily foldable at all times’, and that’s what the law states as legal. The Svord is a tad over 3” though, so is not legal everyday carry were it to be argued.

Agreed, the grey area is still where the blade is measured from. It used to be ‘cutting edge’.

 

[Delboy]

Same if you took the blade out of any knife really. Technically a SAK blade without the handle to fold into could be called a fixed blade. It’s just inventing scenarios, there’s no point to it, and certainly no point in thinking lawmakers are going to give a Svord Peasant or friction folder much consideration. As it is ‘readily foldable at all times’, and that’s what the law states as legal. The Svord is a tad over 3” though, so is not legal everyday carry were it to be argued.

Agreed, the grey area is still where the blade is measured from. It used to be ‘cutting edge’.

The legislation specifically still says cutting edge.

I cannot find any case law defining cutting edge, but it’s pretty reasonable a cutting edge must be sharpened

 

[Broch]

The legislation specifically still says cutting edge.

I cannot find any case law defining cutting edge, but it’s pretty reasonable a cutting edge must be sharpened

Maybe, but it's not logical. A 5" blade with a 1" sharpened edge is just as lethal as a 5" sharpened edge. We all know that, the law knows we know that, so I don't think an argument about sharpened edge will stand up in court or with an arresting officer.

 

[Wildgoose]

Do you have the case law for that ?

I don’t unfortunately. He mentioned it in his video so I did have a look to see if something had changed but to no avail. It won’t be R v Wildgoose 2024 though I’ll be sure of that.

The cps website says:

“The article does not have to be sharp: a butter knife, with no cutting edge and no point, is a bladed article. The only exception to the bladed or sharply pointed provision is a folding pocketknife, and only if the blade does not exceed 3 inches. Typically this would catch Swiss army-style knives. “Folding pocketknife” means immediately foldable, simply by pressing it into place. If any further action is required, such as pressing a button or releasing a catch (as is the case with a lock knife), the knife is not a folding pocketknife. All other bladed articles which are plainly not foldable pocketknives, for instance kitchen knives or a foldable cut- throat razor, are caught by this legislation irrespective of length. A folding pocket knife less than 3 inches will be an offensive weapon if carried with the requisite intent. Similarly, a screwdriver is not a bladed article but could be an offensive weapon”

 

[Delboy]

Maybe, but it's not logical. A 5" blade with a 1" sharpened edge is just as lethal as a 5" sharpened edge. We all know that, the law knows we know that, so I don't think an argument about sharpened edge will stand up in court or with an arresting officer.

I looked through case law, unfortunately nothing defines cutting edge

 

[Wildgoose]

I’m not a legal expert by any stretch but I would wager that a court would dismiss any argument about cutting edge length and convict on the basis of overall blade length.

This would/could form case law.

The convicted could of course appeal and fight the legislation at considerable cost and risk.

 

[Pattree]

I don’t understand this debate.

"Utility Knives and Multitools – Are they Legal for Camping?"​

Yes.

Totally agree.
Nothing has changed.