Traditional Scottish Clothing

[Toddy]

WOW

thanks for all the info!!!

did anyone come to a conclusion about what they would be wearing?
Viking type clothing etc maybe?

I'm finding it difficult to find any books on this kind of thing.

THANKS

Dunk

See post No. 6

cheers,
Toddy

 

[myotis]

My reading of it is that there is no "traditional" sgian dubh - it was invented in the 19th C and its origins are shrouded in mystery. The possibly-sort-of-traditional "hidden knife" is the sgian achlais, and nobody really knows what it looked like.

If you're interested in known traditional Scottish knives from the earlier historical period, you're looking at something more like a dirk or bollock dagger.

Ah, now I had always assumed that it had some basis in history, even if it wasn't the knife that people put in their socks. I've read bits and pieces (like the original Sgian Dubh's were about 1" longer than the ones we see today etc) that suggested their was a little bit of information around.

I'm less keen on having one if it really is only a 19th century invention :-(

Graham

 

[myotis]

WOW

thanks for all the info!!!

did anyone come to a conclusion about what they would be wearing?
Viking type clothing etc maybe?

I'm finding it difficult to find any books on this kind of thing.

THANKS

Dunk

The posts fromToddy are probably the ones to focus on.

Graham

 

[BorderReiver]

My reading of it is that there is no "traditional" sgian dubh - it was invented in the 19th C and its origins are shrouded in mystery. The possibly-sort-of-traditional "hidden knife" is the sgian achlais, and nobody really knows what it looked like.

If you're interested in known traditional Scottish knives from the earlier historical period, you're looking at something more like a dirk or bollock dagger.

Aye, I'll go along with all that.

Just to add that the "original" sgian was whatever small knife you happened to own. The only pattern was "small" and "knife".

While I'm here, I see nothing wrong with the modern concept of Scottish National Dress. Tradition has to start somewhere and the kilt and associated accesories are as much a part of Scottish heitage as the midge. IMO

 

[myotis]

Just to add that the "original" sgian was whatever small knife you happened to own. The only pattern was "small" and "knife".

Yep, I agree, and pretty well what I said several post back.

Graham

 

[BorderReiver]

Ah, now I had always assumed that it had some basis in history, even if it wasn't the knife that people put in their socks. I've read bits and pieces (like the original Sgian Dubh's were about 1" longer than the ones we see today etc) that suggested their was a little bit of information around.

I'm less keen on having one if it really is only a 19th century invention :-(

Graham

I can't see your problem Graham. As I said further up the page, tradition has to start somewhere.

Everything evolves with time and if is of no use it disappears. The idea of the black knife is sound; it was given substance in the 19th century in the form of the current sock knife.

BTW, my sgian has a crown on the top as it was a service weapon worn by one of the Scottish regiments.

 

[gregorach]

Pretty much the whole idea of "Scottishness" as a unified culture was invented in the 18th & 19th centuries. Before that, there was no unified Scottish identity. Remember, the '45 rebellion was largely Catholic Tory Highlanders versus Protestant Whig Lowlanders, and more Scots fought against Charlie than for him. Before that you have a pretty complex mosaic of overlapping and intersecting tribal, cultural and geographic identities. For a long time, Gaelic speakers weren't even regarded as truly Scottish - they we called "the wild Irish" - despite the fact that the Gaels were instrumental in the founding of the nation which came to be known as Scotland.

It's a messy, complex, tangled business...

 

[Graham_S]

there are a few schools of thought on the Sgian Dbu and the wearing in the sock.
one is that the highlander took his sgian auchlas and tucked it into the top of his hose when entering a friends house to demonstrate he had no ill intent, displaying his concealed weapon for all to see.
the other is that it was originally the skinning knife used by a ghillie, who when hunting would tuck it into the top of the hose where it would be handy when dressing deer on the hill.

the local aristoctacy, while out on a hunting party copied it as part of the highland fashion

 

[myotis]

I can't see your problem Graham. As I said further up the page, tradition has to start somewhere.

Everything evolves with time and if is of no use it disappears. The idea of the black knife is sound; it was given substance in the 19th century in the form of the current sock knife.

BTW, my sgian has a crown on the top as it was a service weapon worn by one of the Scottish regiments.

Yes, I have sort of re-thought that gut reaction.

I suppose my "romantic" view of it centred around ot being a peasant tool cum weapon, rather than a decoration. But it is certainly part of the tradition of the Scotland that I belong to (sort of, as I am now exiled to Somerset).

Graham

 

[BorderReiver]

Pretty much the whole idea of "Scottishness" as a unified culture was invented in the 18th & 19th centuries. Before that, there was no unified Scottish identity. Remember, the '45 rebellion was largely Catholic Tory Highlanders versus Protestant Whig Lowlanders, and more Scots fought against Charlie than for him. Before that you have a pretty complex mosaic of overlapping and intersecting tribal, cultural and geographic identities. For a long time, Gaelic speakers weren't even regarded as truly Scottish - they we called "the wild Irish" - despite the fact that the Gaels were instrumental in the founding of the nation which came to be known as Scotland.

It's a messy, complex, tangled business...

All the more reason to go with the "invented unified culture".

 

[myotis]

It's a messy, complex, tangled business...

It certainly is, as I said in my first post, Scottish history is gloriously confusing

Graham

 

[gregorach]

That's what makes it so interesting.

 

[myotis]

the other is that it was originally the skinning knife used by a ghillie, who when hunting would tuck it into the top of the hose where it would be handy when dressing deer on the hill.

I hadn't heard that one before, I wonder if the red flashes are symbolic for the blood from the gralloched deer running down your socks.

Graham

 

[Graham_S]

flashes are not representative of anything other than the strips of cloth used to hold up your hose in the days before elastic.
Plus no self respecting ghillie would put his knife back in the sheath without cleaning it first.

 

[myotis]

flashes are not representative of anything other than the strips of cloth used to hold up your hose in the days before elastic.
Plus no self respecting ghillie would put his knife back in the sheath without cleaning it first.

Fair enough, it was a little bit tongue in cheek.

Graham

 

[myotis]

That's what makes it so interesting.

I can't argue with that

Graham